g1ant

Bugger. I'm Scottish, so if I take out dual citizenship I'm getting shafted in both holes.

paddingtongreen

You're over analysing this. In history, there have been many people with dual loyalties. Nobles who owned manors in more than one country owed allegiance to all of those countries, for their manors in those country. They had to field each manor's obligation on behalf of it's country in case of war. The only time it was a problem was when two of his countries went to war against each other, and then they were usually allowed to stay neutral.

You can perform the duties of citizenship for each unless they conflict, then you can decide which is prime.

Loyalty has never been a "for ever and ever" thing.

National anthems are almost always bellicose and reflect the past.

I recently posted about the Statue of George Washington in front of the National gallery in London. History is in the past, the traitor has been rehabilitated. I'm sure that saluting the Star Spangled Banner will not cost you you British citizenship.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

The terms "nation", "country" and "state" can have different meanings in different contexts and locations.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation

The original version of the Pledge of Allegiance to the US Flag did note "one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." I think of this as the aftermath of the American Civil War. As Shelby Foote noted in the Ken Burns documentary, the language went from "The United States are..." to "the United States is ..." The Civil War made the the county an "is."

By the way, as a native of California, we sang a song called "America" in elementary school:

My country,' tis of thee,
sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing;
land where my fathers died,
land of the pilgrims' pride,
from every mountainside let freedom ring!

I think I was in my teens when I learned that it was sung to "God Save the Queen."

Personally, I'd rather have "America The Beautiful" as the National Anthem. Or on the more subversive end of things -- Woody Guthrie's "This Land is My Land, This Land is Your Land."

At the Southern California Naturalization Ceremonies, they play a video of Lee Greenwood's "God Bless The U.S.A." Personally, I think they should play The Boss singing "American Land."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vt4r_QUQnA

As an immigration lawyer, the love of my home country has deepened a lot. It is a deep love that George W. Bush can't destroy, although he has tried and his minions are still trying.

Xebedee

Prob am over-analysing. Has been known to happen.
You make good points and I find myself agreeing with your logic, but the US isn't at all open to 3-in-a-bed (as it were). In fact, the sentiments are rather "anti-duality" if such a term exists. The UK, on the other hand, doesn't seem to care as long as they get your tax money.

I wonder if Eire has dual UK/Irish citizenship and if so, how it resembles that of the US/UK combined?
Surely that history is more recent and deeper rooted.

Things that make you go "hmmmmm"

Xebedee

Yes, yes, yes. I understand my own "national identity crisis" of 3 nations in one (not counting the Welsh - sorry its not going to happen )
and that there would be no Britain were it not for the English.

Damn, that felt good.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

Beg to disagree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YcM3Rislp8&NR=1

But then you did put in "almost always" and I have come up with one exception.

lapin_windstar

IIRC, people born in NI are entitled to both Republic of Ireland and UK citizenship - and besides, Ireland is a country of emigrants (and now immigrants) - there's surely never been a reason to strip everyone who went to UK, Oz, US, Canada, NZ of citizenship.

lapin_windstar

Yeah, I know, that was my point.

The UK also uses "nationality" in a law in a very confusing way, when "citizenship" is actually meant. I believe that it's to suppress the various Celtic nations' nationhood by denying the language - but I admit I have just assumed that and don't have any sort of historical justification for it.