Sheepdip

Went to a 9/11 memorial at a local church last night (really only because SWMBO was in the choir) and in the program of events was the pledge of allegiance. Told my daughter who was with me that I wouldn't be saying it and she didn't have to if she didn't want to (we're all GC holders). She was horrified and stated that she used to say it every morning at middle school. Now we do intend to become USCs at some point but it made me think what other people (i.e. not USCs, but GC or visa holders) do in the same situation? I do respect the flag when prompted, and had both the US and Union Flag flying at half mast yesterday. Do you fell pressurised to 'fit in'?

Nutmegger

Not in the least. I would just stand in respectful silence before I became a USC, same as for the anthem, and I still do. Memorized the words for my swearing in and promptly forgot them, so I couldn't join in if I wanted to!

md95065

You do realize that you didn't have to recite the "Pledge of Allegiance" when you naturalized - you have to take the oath, but the "pledge" is just part of the surrounding ceremonial fluff - I believe that simply "standing in respectful silence" would have been perfectly correct and appropriate there also.

MrEmjoy

I stand or sit in silence also, the same when people are praying before eating etc etc.

Nutmegger

I mentioned that I memorized them, not that I actually spoke them!

SultanOfSwing

I suppose one should just react the same way you might expect a non-Brit in the UK to react when 'God Save The Queen' is played. Stand, where appropriate, hands in front, in respectful silence, as has been mentioned above.

I never did get the need for saying the 'Pledge' at certain events, I might go so far as to say I find it a wee bit weird, but that's not for me to question - I just keep quiet and let them do their thing.

Bob

No need to feel weird, no need to say it. It's just as others have said, just like any nation playing their anthem.

No need to sing and dance about it, but still show respect, sit or stand where appropriate, hands in front or behind the waist, cap/hat off and wait it out. No need to look at the flag either, eyes front and centre.

markhawksley

I teach in a middle school and the kids say the pledge every morning. I just stand respectfully and say nothing. Of course, I have a union flag hanging next to the stars and stripes so the little tykes are really pledging allegiance to that

S Folinsky

It is well established that one need not recite the pledge -- this was established in the 1943 Barnette decision from the Supreme Court.

On 9/11/2011, my biggest emotional memory of 9/11 was of what took place later on June 7, 2002 -- when I attended my daughter's commencement in Cambridge, Massachusetts. We were standing outside in pouring rain -- and the band struck up "The Star Spangled Banner." My flight from L.A. to Boston was my first time I flew subsequent to 9/11 and transversing the United terminal at Logan Airport, I was acutely aware that I was walking where the South Tower hijackers had trod. At the beginning of the commencement ceremony, I can say that it was the first time in my life that I had an emotional response to the national anthem -- a big cosmic "Up yours!" skyward, "I'm still here and I'm going to enjoy this!"

Otherwise, the Pledge and the National Anthem have been somewhat meaningless background all my life. That said, I have always found The Battle Hymn of the Republic to be quite stirring. There is something about it that promotes universal "ownership."

dbj1000

Since I like to be respectful, I'm keen to know about "hands in front". I usually clasp my hands behind my back. Is that less respectful? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this was a bit of etiquette that I've failed to pick up over the years.

S Folinsky

Valid point. As a veteran, I can tell you that legs spread apart and hands clasped behind the back is the "at ease" position. "Attention" is ankles together, feet at a 45 degree angle and arms to the side. The only position with hands in front will be "present arms" which will be with the right hand.

BTW, "at ease" is a quite formal position and can show respect. Other than in the context of a formal salute, hands in front strike me as disrespectful.

When the Pledge of Allegiance was first popularized, it was accompanied by the what came known as the "Bellamy Salute" which was the right arm extended to the front upwards with the palm up. A variation of the Bellamy Salute was later adopted by the Fascist Party in Italy and the National Socialist Party in Germany. By association Bellamy Salute then became unpopular in the United States. During World War II, the civilian form of salute was to place the right hand over the heart.

So the question becomes -- when does one salute the flag?

SultanOfSwing

I think either is fine - I just meant 'not in your pockets'.

Jack97

My 5 year old son recites it at school, although he's not quite got the hang of it yet. He starts (very seriously and with his right hand across his chest) by saying......."I pleasure agents to the United States of America"

Cute though

robin1234

Hmm.. not sure if Richard Stands would approve of that..

Sheepdip

Quote:

"according to the Flag Code, the Pledge "should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present and not in uniform may render the military salute. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute"

I just stood in respect, facing the flag, like most people seem to say.