Re: People have short memories
Just as long as we can reclaim taxes spent for personal back up of data...would save on cloud storage fees :D
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Re: People have short memories
Originally Posted by civilservant
(Post 10755377)
I will happily surrender some of my liberty (some) in return for not getting blown up.
My liberty, not so much. |
Re: People have short memories
I thought my OP was clear enough, we had a big public fuss about it before. One or two have stepped up and said, in addition, we knew about this before. Whoop-de-doo:blink:
There are so many windows of opportunity for terrorist activities that it is impossible to close more than a small fraction. The victory for Osama continues, we are one hell of a lot poorer than we would have been if we hadn't gone charging off to war without a plan, "We'll fight them there so we don't have to fight them here", we continue waste our wealth closing the ones they've already tried instead of the ones they haven't. Like the generals, they always fight the last war. To those who would give up a little liberty to gain a little security I say, Each time another terrorist makes a splash, the NSA et al will want to curtail your freedom "Just a little bit" until these little bits amount to a big bit. |
Re: People have short memories
Originally Posted by markwm
(Post 10755350)
There is more but the point is that it is nothing new - the USA (and others) have been monitoring communications in one form or another since WWII.
As the case is written, it doesn't protect internet usage, either. The essence of the argument is that you obviously aren't keeping your usage a secret from your phone company when you dial a number, therefore you have no expectation of privacy and no Fourth Amendment protection. We've had three Republican presidents since then. If someone wanted to strengthen privacy laws, then they've had 34 years to do it. |
Re: People have short memories
Originally Posted by paddingtongreen
(Post 10757354)
I thought my OP was clear enough, we had a big public fuss about it before. One or two have stepped up and said, in addition, we knew about this before. Whoop-de-doo:blink:
There are so many windows of opportunity for terrorist activities that it is impossible to close more than a small fraction. The victory for Osama continues, we are one hell of a lot poorer than we would have been if we hadn't gone charging off to war without a plan, "We'll fight them there so we don't have to fight them here", we continue waste our wealth closing the ones they've already tried instead of the ones they haven't. Like the generals, they always fight the last war. To those who would give up a little liberty to gain a little security I say, Each time another terrorist makes a splash, the NSA et al will want to curtail your freedom "Just a little bit" until these little bits amount to a big bit. |
Re: People have short memories
Originally Posted by paddingtongreen
(Post 10757354)
...... To those who would give up a little liberty to gain a little security I say, Each time another terrorist makes a splash, the NSA et al will want to curtail your freedom "Just a little bit" until these little bits amount to a big bit.
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Re: People have short memories
Originally Posted by Pulaski
(Post 10755437)
Well many of Obama's supporters seem to think that he is being criticized because he is black despite the fact that there is not one jot of evidence to support that assertion. In fact there are so many things to disagree with based on his policies its hard to know where to start, and all have absolutely no connection to his race, but the standard explanation touted by his supporters in response to all and any criticism, is that it is all about race; how racist is that? :rolleyes:
Before the right even knew that there was anyone dead at Benghazi, they were already blaming the white house and since have had almost one year of investigations. Now Issa is milking the IRS scandal for all it's worth with unproven allegations and innuendos. The democrats don't appear to be as ruthless. When the democrats took control of the house, you would have thought that there would have been endless hearings about why Bush and Cheney went to war in Iraq (much more serious than Benghazi or the IRS scandal with much more suspected dubious involvement by the white house) but not one single hearing was ever held. Instead the democrats decided to make peace and in return they were stabbed in the back tenfold. |
Re: People have short memories
Originally Posted by Pulaski
(Post 10758193)
I understand the point, and my natural inclination is to think that the government should stay the he11 out of my business. However when I stop and think about what is important to me, and what would really impact the lives of my family and me, I really am prepared to give up a lot of my notional freedoms if the government security agencies can prevent more terrorist attacks. And I guess a lot of other people would too. .... Honestly, would it really matter if the government was listening to your phone calls? I don't think so.
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Re: People have short memories
Let's flip the question around. Are you prepared to sacrifice your entire family in a terrorist incident that could have been prevented by a small of infraction of that terrorists liberties?
I have nothing to hide, therefore am prepared to give some of my 'privacy' away. Let's face it, wherever we go and whatever we do metrics are being collected about us anyway. Buying habits on credit cards, surfing habits by Google etc - all are being monitored every second of every day. So why are people so up in arms when it's the Government trying to protect you, but seem to be perfectly content when it's someone out to make a profit from you? At the end of the day, which of these is working for you? |
Re: People have short memories
Originally Posted by civilservant
(Post 10758574)
Let's flip the question around. Are you prepared to sacrifice your entire family in a terrorist incident that could have been prevented by a small of infraction of that terrorists liberties?
I have nothing to hide, therefore am prepared to give some of my 'privacy' away. Let's face it, wherever we go and whatever we do metrics are being collected about us anyway. Buying habits on credit cards, surfing habits by Google etc. Why are people so up in arms when it's the Government trying to protect you, but seem to be perfectly content when it's someone out to make a profit from you? At the end of the day, which of these is working for you? |
Re: People have short memories
Of course not, and things will continue to happen. 1 or 2 madmen that share their plans with nobody will have a high percentage of success simply because these monitoring systems look at communications.
Personally however, I am of the opinion that plots can and have been prevented by the methods that have been used. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the Patriot Act, torture or extraordinary rendition, but on a personal level the surrender of my right not to have my web history recorded is not something that I rail against. |
Re: People have short memories
Originally Posted by civilservant
(Post 10758591)
Of course not, and things will continue to happen. 1 or 2 madmen that share their plans with nobody will have a high percentage of success simply because these monitoring systems look at communications.
Personally however, I am of the opinion that plots can and have been prevented by the methods that have been used. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the Patriot Act, torture or extraordinary rendition at all, but on a personal level the surrender of my right not to have my web history recorded is not something that I rail against. I was much more concerned about the Justice department during the Bush administration holding suspected terrorists (many were not) in jail without charges and due process authorized by the Patriot Act. |
Re: People have short memories
Originally Posted by zargof
(Post 10758566)
That's great. Just curious, what are you prepared to give up to prevent gun violence?
Or for that matter road deaths? ...... Is that enough? :confused: |
Re: People have short memories
Originally Posted by civilservant
(Post 10758574)
Let's flip the question around. Are you prepared to sacrifice your entire family in a terrorist incident that could have been prevented by a small of infraction of that terrorists liberties?
I have nothing to hide, therefore am prepared to give some of my 'privacy' away. Let's face it, wherever we go and whatever we do metrics are being collected about us anyway. Buying habits on credit cards, surfing habits by Google etc - all are being monitored every second of every day. So why are people so up in arms when it's the Government trying to protect you, but seem to be perfectly content when it's someone out to make a profit from you? At the end of the day, which of these is working for you? Re. your second and third paragraphs, I don't like the commercial spying on me but then I can't control them and they don't work for me, the government is supposed to work for me. I don't trust the government because they don't trust me. I believe that many of these programs were promulgated to provide income for government contractors. Check out Dianne Feinstein's conflicts of interest and you'll see what I mean. |
Re: People have short memories
Originally Posted by civilservant
(Post 10755377)
I will happily surrender some of my liberty (some) in return for not getting blown up.
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