Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > USA
Reload this Page >

Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Old Feb 4th 2021, 8:11 pm
  #16  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 2,942
durham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
Having checked the 1040 instructions I decided to follow your advice and amend my TT return. (Not filed yet).
Pleased to be of service kind sir.
durham_lad is offline  
Old Feb 5th 2021, 6:56 pm
  #17  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 112
iceflow is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
Having checked the 1040 instructions I decided to follow your advice and amend my TT return. (Not filed yet).
What I've done in the past with TT is ignore the "1099-R Federal ID blank" error on smart check and put a line into the two explanation notes that are required for the 1099-R that the payer is a UK company and as such doesn't have a Federal ID number. With all that said, so far I can't file as according to TT Form 4852 has not been approved by IRS......but....I can find form 4852 on the IRS website for a rev: 9/2020.

Thanks all.
iceflow is offline  
Old Feb 6th 2021, 12:23 am
  #18  
 
lansbury's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,698
lansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by iceflow View Post
What I've done in the past with TT is ignore the "1099-R Federal ID blank" error on smart check and put a line into the two explanation notes that are required for the 1099-R that the payer is a UK company and as such doesn't have a Federal ID number. With all that said, so far I can't file as according to TT Form 4852 has not been approved by IRS......but....I can find form 4852 on the IRS website for a rev: 9/2020.

Thanks all.
I haven't tried to file yet as I'm still waiting for a couple of pieces of information to complete the return. We'll see what happens when those arrive about the 19th. Mind you I have faith that durham_lads workaround works.
lansbury is offline  
Old Feb 6th 2021, 11:06 pm
  #19  
Ex Expat
 
MMcD's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: "LA LA Land"
Posts: 2,346
MMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by iceflow View Post
Folks,
For anyone receiving either the UK State or ex UK Employer pension......what form do you use to report the income on the US Tax Return. I have been using Form 4852 which is a substitute for a 1099-R.
I've used Form 4852 (with Turbo Tax filing) for years.
Always enter 11-1111111 as the "...Payer's TIN" in Box 8
And have always been able to e-file my Federal taxes
However, California has never accepted e-filing of that form - so must mail my State taxes.
I'm hesitant to switch to the easy solution, and use Nutmeggars suggestion (post #2, above) - given that I file 4 of these forms every year and think consistency is probably a good practice.
The only thing is....
This year each of the 4852's has a RED WARNING on the upper right :




***Does anyone else see that same red warning on the form when using Turbo Tax for 2020 filing? ***

Originally Posted by durham_lad View Post
Yes. I use Turbotax but I assume all tax software will efile the substitute 1099R
As I mentioned above...e-filing Federal return has worked for me in past years....but each State has its own filing requirements - and they vary. So for anyone who is required to file State taxes - best check before deciding which of the 2 methods to use.


MMcD is offline  
Old Feb 6th 2021, 11:22 pm
  #20  
Deep in the woods of CT
 
Nutmegger's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,317
Nutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond reputeNutmegger has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

MMcD, I’ve been doing that for over a decade with no problems. Initially set up that way by my accountant, nowadays DIY with TT.
Nutmegger is offline  
Old Feb 7th 2021, 12:09 am
  #21  
Wondering if...
 
celticgrid's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Clarence, NY
Posts: 1,187
celticgrid has a reputation beyond reputecelticgrid has a reputation beyond reputecelticgrid has a reputation beyond reputecelticgrid has a reputation beyond reputecelticgrid has a reputation beyond reputecelticgrid has a reputation beyond reputecelticgrid has a reputation beyond reputecelticgrid has a reputation beyond reputecelticgrid has a reputation beyond reputecelticgrid has a reputation beyond reputecelticgrid has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by MMcD View Post
Does anyone else see that same red warning on the form when using Turbo Tax for 2020 filing? ***
Not yet for 2020 - it'll be another week or so before I start loading all the data into Turbo Tax.

However I did get this last year. Eventually, with no change by me, other than applying a TT update, it went away. If I recall correctly it was because the final version of the form had not yet been signed off by the IRS. It was just a matter of being patient.
celticgrid is offline  
Old Feb 7th 2021, 12:34 am
  #22  
 
lansbury's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,698
lansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by MMcD View Post

***Does anyone else see that same red warning on the form when using Turbo Tax for 2020 filing? ***


I think you might be getting that warning on the form because the IRS has not updated that form for 2020 yet. I just looked at my TT file for this year and it has a warning not to file until the 4852 is ready for this year. But also has a warning saying it cannot be e-filed at all.

Last edited by lansbury; Feb 7th 2021 at 12:37 am.
lansbury is offline  
Old Feb 7th 2021, 12:43 am
  #23  
 
lansbury's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,698
lansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by Nutmegger View Post
MMcD, I’ve been doing that for over a decade with no problems. Initially set up that way by my accountant, nowadays DIY with TT.

That was also the advice given on the TT forums so you could overcome not being able to e file with substitute 1099s and form 4852, without faking IRS ID numbers. Which was why I did it that way.
lansbury is offline  
Old Feb 7th 2021, 7:02 pm
  #24  
Ex Expat
 
MMcD's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: "LA LA Land"
Posts: 2,346
MMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by Nutmegger View Post
MMcD, I’ve been doing that for over a decade with no problems. Initially set up that way by my accountant, nowadays DIY with TT.
Thanks Nutmegger - Your accountant obviously knew what he was doing and chose the most straightforward path. When I initially struggled with TT, and how the heck to report foreign earnings in a system not originally set up to easily accommodate foreign income reporting - I came upon the 'workaround' method. It's a pita - but I'll stick with it to be consistent

Originally Posted by celticgrid View Post
Not yet for 2020 - it'll be another week or so before I start loading all the data into Turbo Tax.
However I did get this last year. Eventually, with no change by me, other than applying a TT update, it went away. If I recall correctly it was because the final version of the form had not yet been signed off by the IRS. It was just a matter of being patient.
Many thanks!
That's a relief. It's what I was wondering / hoping..
I dipped into Turbo Tax much earlier this year ( stuck in house , Covid confined, climbing walls, time on hands. ..)
Hope the four 4852s already completed shed their red warnings in a few weeks.

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
I think you might be getting that warning on the form because the IRS has not updated that form for 2020 yet. I just looked at my TT file for this year and it has a warning not to file until the 4852 is ready for this year. But also has a warning saying it cannot be e-filed at all.
As I recall...It always says that for some reason. Nevertheless - I've ALWAYS e-filed Federal return. Not the State return ( which must include a copy of Federal ) So Lansbury - if you do switch to this method and save yourself a trip to the post office - you might want to first be sure you can also e-file your Oregon taxes - if they also include the 4852s

Last edited by MMcD; Feb 7th 2021 at 7:06 pm.
MMcD is offline  
Old Feb 8th 2021, 9:13 pm
  #25  
 
lansbury's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,698
lansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by MMcD View Post

As I recall...It always says that for some reason. Nevertheless - I've ALWAYS e-filed Federal return. Not the State return ( which must include a copy of Federal ) So Lansbury - if you do switch to this method and save yourself a trip to the post office - you might want to first be sure you can also e-file your Oregon taxes - if they also include the 4852s
Search as I may on Oregon's tax web site I cannot find out if I can e-file a 4852 or not. Having tried both ways, Schedule 1 or substitute 1099 in TT, the tax works out the same, as would be expected. So I guess it is sticking with the Miscellaneous Income as I have in the past. It might not be as per 1040 instructions but it is what TT recommends and is the easiest.
lansbury is offline  
Old Feb 8th 2021, 11:05 pm
  #26  
Ex Expat
 
MMcD's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: "LA LA Land"
Posts: 2,346
MMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
Search as I may on Oregon's tax web site I cannot find out if I can e-file a 4852 or not. Having tried both ways, Schedule 1 or substitute 1099 in TT, the tax works out the same, as would be expected. So I guess it is sticking with the Miscellaneous Income as I have in the past. It might not be as per 1040 instructions but it is what TT recommends and is the easiest.
I'd recommend what I'm doing (assuming you have already gone to the trouble of preparing the 4852s) - leave them in your saved TT pdf file.
As soon as Turbo Tax starts to accept completed returns for filing in a few weeks - click on the FILE tab at the upper right.
You won't have to actually file, but if you initiate the process TT will let you know whether or not you'll be able to e-file - if you select that that's what you prefer to do.
Then, if you find Oregon WON'T accept e-filing because of that form, you'll have 2 options:
A) e-File Federal Return and Print out / Snail Mail Oregon Return (that's what I do every year with my Federal and CA. returns
or...
B) Go back to the TT FORMS view, and remove both the 1099-Rs and the associated 4598s.
Submit a Schedule 1, Line 8 Form in it's place (just as I think ? you've been doing in the past)
E-file the whole shebang

DONE!

MMcD is offline  
Old Feb 13th 2021, 4:39 pm
  #27  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 69
Russet has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Thinking about taking distributions from my UK pension at age 55, as this is allowed, but I know IRS impose a 10 % penalty on 401k/IRA early distributions before age 59.5. When I report this income on my US return is it going to be subject to the 10% penalty too?
Russet is offline  
Old Feb 13th 2021, 4:48 pm
  #28  
 
lansbury's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,698
lansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by MMcD View Post
I'd recommend what I'm doing (assuming you have already gone to the trouble of preparing the 4852s) - leave them in your saved TT pdf file.
As soon as Turbo Tax starts to accept completed returns for filing in a few weeks - click on the FILE tab at the upper right.
You won't have to actually file, but if you initiate the process TT will let you know whether or not you'll be able to e-file - if you select that that's what you prefer to do.
Then, if you find Oregon WON'T accept e-filing because of that form, you'll have 2 options:
A) e-File Federal Return and Print out / Snail Mail Oregon Return (that's what I do every year with my Federal and CA. returns
or...
B) Go back to the TT FORMS view, and remove both the 1099-Rs and the associated 4598s.
Submit a Schedule 1, Line 8 Form in it's place (just as I think ? you've been doing in the past)
E-file the whole shebang

DONE!
For some reason I've only just seen this post. Thanks MMcD for the way to get TT to check Oregon e-filing. I'll give that a try when I ready, and if they don't I think I'll go back to Schedule 1. Using Schedule 1 hasn't been a problem in previous years, and e-filing gets the refund quicker. I had a big dental bill in 2020 so the anticipated refund is quite large and I'd like it ASAP.
lansbury is offline  
Old Feb 13th 2021, 5:23 pm
  #29  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 2,942
durham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by Russet View Post
Thinking about taking distributions from my UK pension at age 55, as this is allowed, but I know IRS impose a 10 % penalty on 401k/IRA early distributions before age 59.5. When I report this income on my US return is it going to be subject to the 10% penalty too?
No 10% early withdrawal penalty from the IRS for taking your UK pension at age 55. I’ve been there and done that.
durham_lad is offline  
Old Feb 13th 2021, 7:04 pm
  #30  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 69
Russet has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond reputeRusset has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form

Originally Posted by durham_lad View Post
No 10% early withdrawal penalty from the IRS for taking your UK pension at age 55. I’ve been there and done that.
Thank you - I thought that may have been the case!
Russet is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.