Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by MMcD
(Post 12977400)
Has anyone managed to e-file IRS Form 4852 (Substitute 1099-R) yet with their 2020 return?
I'm still seeing the red DO NOT FILE warnings on the 4 forms I've saved for filing in Turbo Tax Deluxe (see screen shot above in my 1st post). (That, despite the fact that TT indicates that form is ready for filing by mail :confused: ) Even more to the point, on their "Federal Individual Form Availability" page, (https://care-cdn.prodsupportsite.a.i...ndividual.html ) TT seem to indicate pretty decisively that the 4852 is and will remain "UNSUPPORTED" for efile this year. Has anyone found otherwise? |
Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by durham_lad
(Post 12977406)
I am in the same situation. I don't normally file until May and if this situation is still the case, then I will switch my UK pension income onto "Other Income" rather than send in the return by mail. The tax is the same so the IRS won't really care.
If you switch to using the "Other Income" form how would you either separate (or combine ?) the individual income sources you've been reporting on the individual 4852s? I have a UK State income Pension and 3 separate UK Annuities. As mentioned in an earlier post - I wish to remain as consistent as possible with regard to prior filings. Reporting this way would be a major change. |
Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by MMcD
(Post 12977415)
I believe, like me, you also have been filing several 4852s.
If you switch to using the "Other Income" form how would you either separate (or combine ?) the individual income sources you've been reporting on the individual 4852s? I have a UK State income Pension and 3 separate UK Annuities. As mentioned in an earlier post - I wish to remain as consistent as possible with regard to prior filings. Reporting this way would be a major change. In TT under "Miscellaneous Income" you can enter "Other reportable income", and then add a line for each UK pension. I've just tried it and it seems to work well. For each line I put the exact name of the pension provider as I did in the 4852. If the IRS did question the change it would be easily explainable. |
Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by MMcD
(Post 12977415)
I believe, like me, you also have been filing several 4852s.
If you switch to using the "Other Income" form how would you either separate (or combine ?) the individual income sources you've been reporting on the individual 4852s? I have a UK State income Pension and 3 separate UK Annuities. As mentioned in an earlier post - I wish to remain as consistent as possible with regard to prior filings. Reporting this way would be a major change. |
Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by lansbury
(Post 12977438)
Between Mrs L and I we have 5 pensions from the UK. 2 employer and 2 State (one each) and I have an annuity. In TT, which I have already e-filed for this year, I just show the total for each of us, which on schedule one becomes one total amount with the explanation "Pensions from the United Kingdom". Been doing it that way since you got me started with TT, and not had any problems.
It was back in the day of CDs :lol: |
Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by lansbury
(Post 12977438)
............. I just show the total for each of us, which on schedule one becomes one total amount with the explanation "Pensions from the United Kingdom". Been doing it that way since you got me started with TT, and not had any problems.
When I first started, I had a very long (and quite friendly) conversation with an IRS agent at the US Embassy (a luxury that no longer exists). His advice was to put the total of all foreign pensions, both company and State, on the "other income" line, and handle the US SS per the treaty (amount from the SSA-1099 on line a, 0 on line b taxable income). No further information was required (except for my records). Therefore I completely agree with your methodology. I also have a basis in the 3 company pensions. The agent advised to work out the basis for each and deduct the total basis from the gross of the 3 pensions, entering the remainder, along with the State pensions, on the "other income" line. I filed that way for years without any comeback from the IRS. Recently, the IRS started publishing information that states foreign pensions should be placed on the normal "pensions" line (line a for the gross, line b for the taxable after basis - foreign pensions require the "General Method" not the simplified method). And of course, FATCA 8938 was introduced. So I changed the way I report. I now enter the 3 gross foreign company pensions on "pensions" line a, calculate the basis for each and total the result, deducting it from the gross for the amount on line b. This also allows me to reference the 3 company pensions on 8938. There is a line on 8938 requiring a listing of the total amount of the additional assets (foreign pensions) and where reported on the 1040. I list the 2 foreign State pensions on the "other income" line of schedule 1. For the US SS, on the SS line, I enter on line a the gross amount from the SSA-1099 and 0 on line b, and disregard it for all the rest of the return, including the 1116, as per the IRS agents advice. I've been doing it this way for the past 5(?) years without any comeback from the IRS. For those with US pensions (and basis simplified) as well as foreign pensions (and basis general) some other method would likely be required - most likely entering the foreign pensions minus basis on the "other income" line of schedule 1. The upshot to all this (knew we'd eventually get here!) - doing 4852 for foreign pensions for TT and other tax software is only needed to make TT work. Any amount could be entered on the 4852 and the IRS has no way of knowing if it's correct or not. There is no absolute correct way of completing the IRS tax form. The IRS would probably accept most reasonable methods if they can be substantiated. If challenged, the only accurate evidence will come from the records you provide to the IRS substantiating your figures. My uninvited 2cents worth. |
Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by theOAP
(Post 12977511)
The upshot to all this (knew we'd eventually get here!) - doing 4852 for foreign pensions for TT and other tax software is only needed to make TT work. Any amount could be entered on the 4852 and the IRS has no way of knowing if it's correct or not. There is no absolute correct way of completing the IRS tax form. The IRS would probably accept most reasonable methods if they can be substantiated. If challenged, the only accurate evidence will come from the records you provide to the IRS substantiating your figures. My uninvited 2cents worth. I for one have always considered your comments on these matters worth a lot more than 2 cents. :lol: |
Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by lansbury
(Post 12977515)
I for one have always considered your comments on these matters worth a lot more than 2 cents. :lol:
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Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by lansbury
(Post 12977515)
I for one have always considered your comments on these matters worth a lot more than 2 cents. :lol:
Originally Posted by durham_lad
(Post 12977517)
+1
So...hello and thanks once again |
Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
It pays to e-file. Did so Sunday and federal refund went into my bank account today.
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Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by lansbury
(Post 12977645)
It pays to e-file. Did so Sunday and federal refund went into my bank account today.
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Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by lansbury
(Post 12977645)
It pays to e-file.
Turbo Tax has finally got their act together regarding that pesky Form 4852: The red warnings have disappeared from my saved copies And....not only does it show my entire return is ready for e-filing...for the 1st time ever TT shows I can efile my State return as well Whoo hoo :thumbsup: |
Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by MMcD
(Post 12977828)
And to be patient (not you, Lansbury....I'm referring to myself)
Turbo Tax has finally got their act together regarding that pesky Form 4852: The red warnings have disappeared from my saved copies And....not only does it show my entire return is ready for e-filing...for the 1st time ever TT shows I can efile my State return as well Whoo hoo :thumbsup: |
Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by durham_lad
(Post 12977843)
That’s good to hear, thanks.
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Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Just done my taxes for 2020 via professional tax preparer, and they have always put UK PENSION INCOME against Other Income. No other forms have been involved.
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Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
For pension income, I opt for Form 1040 line 5a/5b. Line 5 titled 'Pensions and annuities' seems to match the pension description. If tax filing software requires the creation of some fake 1099 or whatever Form, then the software would seem to be obfuscating what should be a straightforward 1040 form filling exercise.
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Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
Originally Posted by sid nv
(Post 12980344)
For pension income, I opt for Form 1040 line 5a/5b. Line 5 titled 'Pensions and annuities' seems to match the pension description. If tax filing software requires the creation of some fake 1099 or whatever Form, then the software would seem to be obfuscating what should be a straightforward 1040 form filling exercise.
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