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-   -   Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form (https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-57/pensions-uk-question-us-tax-form-936919/)

durham_lad Feb 4th 2021 8:11 pm

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by lansbury (Post 12968196)
Having checked the 1040 instructions I decided to follow your advice and amend my TT return. (Not filed yet).

Pleased to be of service kind sir.

iceflow Feb 5th 2021 6:56 pm

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by lansbury (Post 12968196)
Having checked the 1040 instructions I decided to follow your advice and amend my TT return. (Not filed yet).

What I've done in the past with TT is ignore the "1099-R Federal ID blank" error on smart check and put a line into the two explanation notes that are required for the 1099-R that the payer is a UK company and as such doesn't have a Federal ID number. With all that said, so far I can't file as according to TT Form 4852 has not been approved by IRS......but....I can find form 4852 on the IRS website for a rev: 9/2020.

Thanks all.

lansbury Feb 6th 2021 12:23 am

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by iceflow (Post 12968530)
What I've done in the past with TT is ignore the "1099-R Federal ID blank" error on smart check and put a line into the two explanation notes that are required for the 1099-R that the payer is a UK company and as such doesn't have a Federal ID number. With all that said, so far I can't file as according to TT Form 4852 has not been approved by IRS......but....I can find form 4852 on the IRS website for a rev: 9/2020.

Thanks all.

I haven't tried to file yet as I'm still waiting for a couple of pieces of information to complete the return. We'll see what happens when those arrive about the 19th. Mind you I have faith that durham_lads workaround works.

MMcD Feb 6th 2021 11:06 pm

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by iceflow (Post 12967457)
Folks,
For anyone receiving either the UK State or ex UK Employer pension......what form do you use to report the income on the US Tax Return. I have been using Form 4852 which is a substitute for a 1099-R.

I've used Form 4852 (with Turbo Tax filing) for years.
Always enter 11-1111111 as the "...Payer's TIN" in Box 8
And have always been able to e-file my Federal taxes
However, California has never accepted e-filing of that form - so must mail my State taxes.
I'm hesitant to switch to the easy solution, and use Nutmeggars suggestion (post #2, above) - given that I file 4 of these forms every year and think consistency is probably a good practice.
The only thing is....
This year each of the 4852's has a RED WARNING on the upper right :

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...9a8db75f13.png


***Does anyone else see that same red warning on the form when using Turbo Tax for 2020 filing? ***


Originally Posted by durham_lad (Post 12967890)
Yes. I use Turbotax but I assume all tax software will efile the substitute 1099R

As I mentioned above...e-filing Federal return has worked for me in past years....but each State has its own filing requirements - and they vary. So for anyone who is required to file State taxes - best check before deciding which of the 2 methods to use.



Nutmegger Feb 6th 2021 11:22 pm

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 
MMcD, I’ve been doing that for over a decade with no problems. Initially set up that way by my accountant, nowadays DIY with TT.

celticgrid Feb 7th 2021 12:09 am

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by MMcD (Post 12968915)
Does anyone else see that same red warning on the form when using Turbo Tax for 2020 filing? ***

Not yet for 2020 - it'll be another week or so before I start loading all the data into Turbo Tax.

However I did get this last year. Eventually, with no change by me, other than applying a TT update, it went away. If I recall correctly it was because the final version of the form had not yet been signed off by the IRS. It was just a matter of being patient.

lansbury Feb 7th 2021 12:34 am

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by MMcD (Post 12968915)

***Does anyone else see that same red warning on the form when using Turbo Tax for 2020 filing? ***



I think you might be getting that warning on the form because the IRS has not updated that form for 2020 yet. I just looked at my TT file for this year and it has a warning not to file until the 4852 is ready for this year. But also has a warning saying it cannot be e-filed at all.

lansbury Feb 7th 2021 12:43 am

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by Nutmegger (Post 12968918)
MMcD, I’ve been doing that for over a decade with no problems. Initially set up that way by my accountant, nowadays DIY with TT.


That was also the advice given on the TT forums so you could overcome not being able to e file with substitute 1099s and form 4852, without faking IRS ID numbers. Which was why I did it that way.

MMcD Feb 7th 2021 7:02 pm

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by Nutmegger (Post 12968918)
MMcD, I’ve been doing that for over a decade with no problems. Initially set up that way by my accountant, nowadays DIY with TT.

Thanks Nutmegger - Your accountant obviously knew what he was doing and chose the most straightforward path. When I initially struggled with TT, and how the heck to report foreign earnings in a system not originally set up to easily accommodate foreign income reporting - I came upon the 'workaround' method. It's a pita - but I'll stick with it to be consistent


Originally Posted by celticgrid (Post 12968923)
Not yet for 2020 - it'll be another week or so before I start loading all the data into Turbo Tax.
However I did get this last year. Eventually, with no change by me, other than applying a TT update, it went away. If I recall correctly it was because the final version of the form had not yet been signed off by the IRS. It was just a matter of being patient.

Many thanks!
That's a relief. It's what I was wondering / hoping..
I dipped into Turbo Tax much earlier this year ( stuck in house :tape: , Covid confined, climbing walls, time on hands. ..)
Hope the four 4852s already completed shed their red warnings in a few weeks.


Originally Posted by lansbury (Post 12968926)
I think you might be getting that warning on the form because the IRS has not updated that form for 2020 yet. I just looked at my TT file for this year and it has a warning not to file until the 4852 is ready for this year. But also has a warning saying it cannot be e-filed at all.

As I recall...It always says that for some reason. Nevertheless - I've ALWAYS e-filed Federal return. Not the State return ( which must include a copy of Federal ) So Lansbury - if you do switch to this method and save yourself a trip to the post office - you might want to first be sure you can also e-file your Oregon taxes - if they also include the 4852s

lansbury Feb 8th 2021 9:13 pm

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by MMcD (Post 12969207)

As I recall...It always says that for some reason. Nevertheless - I've ALWAYS e-filed Federal return. Not the State return ( which must include a copy of Federal ) So Lansbury - if you do switch to this method and save yourself a trip to the post office - you might want to first be sure you can also e-file your Oregon taxes - if they also include the 4852s

Search as I may on Oregon's tax web site I cannot find out if I can e-file a 4852 or not. Having tried both ways, Schedule 1 or substitute 1099 in TT, the tax works out the same, as would be expected. So I guess it is sticking with the Miscellaneous Income as I have in the past. It might not be as per 1040 instructions but it is what TT recommends and is the easiest.

MMcD Feb 8th 2021 11:05 pm

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by lansbury (Post 12969613)
Search as I may on Oregon's tax web site I cannot find out if I can e-file a 4852 or not. Having tried both ways, Schedule 1 or substitute 1099 in TT, the tax works out the same, as would be expected. So I guess it is sticking with the Miscellaneous Income as I have in the past. It might not be as per 1040 instructions but it is what TT recommends and is the easiest.

I'd recommend what I'm doing (assuming you have already gone to the trouble of preparing the 4852s) - leave them in your saved TT pdf file.
As soon as Turbo Tax starts to accept completed returns for filing in a few weeks - click on the FILE tab at the upper right.
You won't have to actually file, but if you initiate the process TT will let you know whether or not you'll be able to e-file - if you select that that's what you prefer to do.
Then, if you find Oregon WON'T accept e-filing because of that form, you'll have 2 options:
A) e-File Federal Return and Print out / Snail Mail Oregon Return (that's what I do every year with my Federal and CA. returns
or...
B) Go back to the TT FORMS view, and remove both the 1099-Rs and the associated 4598s.
Submit a Schedule 1, Line 8 Form in it's place (just as I think ? you've been doing in the past)
E-file the whole shebang

DONE! :beer:


Russet Feb 13th 2021 4:39 pm

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 
Thinking about taking distributions from my UK pension at age 55, as this is allowed, but I know IRS impose a 10 % penalty on 401k/IRA early distributions before age 59.5. When I report this income on my US return is it going to be subject to the 10% penalty too?

lansbury Feb 13th 2021 4:48 pm

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by MMcD (Post 12969645)
I'd recommend what I'm doing (assuming you have already gone to the trouble of preparing the 4852s) - leave them in your saved TT pdf file.
As soon as Turbo Tax starts to accept completed returns for filing in a few weeks - click on the FILE tab at the upper right.
You won't have to actually file, but if you initiate the process TT will let you know whether or not you'll be able to e-file - if you select that that's what you prefer to do.
Then, if you find Oregon WON'T accept e-filing because of that form, you'll have 2 options:
A) e-File Federal Return and Print out / Snail Mail Oregon Return (that's what I do every year with my Federal and CA. returns
or...
B) Go back to the TT FORMS view, and remove both the 1099-Rs and the associated 4598s.
Submit a Schedule 1, Line 8 Form in it's place (just as I think ? you've been doing in the past)
E-file the whole shebang

DONE! :beer:

For some reason I've only just seen this post. Thanks MMcD for the way to get TT to check Oregon e-filing. I'll give that a try when I ready, and if they don't I think I'll go back to Schedule 1. Using Schedule 1 hasn't been a problem in previous years, and e-filing gets the refund quicker. I had a big dental bill in 2020 so the anticipated refund is quite large and I'd like it ASAP.

durham_lad Feb 13th 2021 5:23 pm

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by Russet (Post 12971514)
Thinking about taking distributions from my UK pension at age 55, as this is allowed, but I know IRS impose a 10 % penalty on 401k/IRA early distributions before age 59.5. When I report this income on my US return is it going to be subject to the 10% penalty too?

No 10% early withdrawal penalty from the IRS for taking your UK pension at age 55. I’ve been there and done that.

Russet Feb 13th 2021 7:04 pm

Re: Pensions from UK question - US Tax Form
 

Originally Posted by durham_lad (Post 12971523)
No 10% early withdrawal penalty from the IRS for taking your UK pension at age 55. I’ve been there and done that.

Thank you - I thought that may have been the case!


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