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Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8013698)
I could make 2 years contributions now but they would not help as they would be duplicated by my US contributions. I need to be able to make the contributions I missed out on due to their misinformation. I am not using my US contributions as I have a widow's pension. The widows pension is not subject to WEP adjustment.
How long have you been in the US? Have you been working for a US employer? When did they misinform you about voluntary contributions? |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8000236)
New Installment... called Pension Service today. 2 international calls...found out complaint has been opened and they are sending me a letter in reply.
I will update when received. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8013865)
I thought you could make VCs up to 6 years in arrears, so even if you are at pension age couldn't you do that? I'm not sure I understand about your 2 years VCs being duplicated by US contributions?
How long have you been in the US? Have you been working for a US employer? When did they misinform you about voluntary contributions? In US from what I remember they take the three largest earning years to calculate the amount you'd get for retirement, so taking the UK money to top it up wouldn't do much, if she was 2 years short of qualifying it's probably help. But she already qualifies. So must have worked for 10 quarters or years or whatever it is. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8019506)
and I'm waiting. no letter and/or documents as of yet. I guess they are rowing these letters across the Atlantic
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Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by Mummy in the foothills
(Post 8020260)
I think that ended in April of this year, now I believe you can only make up 2 years of contributions in UK.
In US from what I remember they take the three largest earning years to calculate the amount you'd get for retirement, so taking the UK money to top it up wouldn't do much, if she was 2 years short of qualifying it's probably help. But she already qualifies. So must have worked for 10 quarters or years or whatever it is. so they would have either 1. used my US quarters to qualify or I could have paid voluntary contributions if they had informed me correctly when I inquired. This inquiry was not just once but I spoke at various times to different departments , different people and all told me the same thing. 10 years required and if you don't have it you are not entitled. You are correct, I can pay 2 years but it would not bring me up to 10 and they would just duplicate 2 of my US years so would not help. According to the pension office part of the reason all of this is delayed is that they have to get my actual records fromthe archives and make sure that nothing is duplicated in the US as if records are the same they cancel out. My argument is if they had responded to my inquiries correctly even in 2008 when there was correspondence I would have been within the time frame to pay and would have done so. Also I think that there was a special circumstance that gave longer to pay certain years due to a government error and that they were supposed to be actively promoting this so people could pay. (Don't have all the info for this in front of me right now so facts are a bit sketchy) |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8020404)
Alba. I'm still unclear how long you've been working in the US and how many UK VC payments you'll be able to make. When exactly did you start looking into expat NI contributions and when did the UK pensions dept misinform you about VC? If you are of pensionable age then the UK authorities will only be able to include your previous NI contributions and at most 6 years of retrospective VC contributions. Did you know anything about paying Class 2 NI contributions as an expat before applyinmg to the UK pension service?
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Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8020419)
Yes I have sufficient quarters for a US pension. However I am presently receiving a widow's pension. My pension is still accumulating in US and if at any time it is more than now, then I can change it over. this of course is a sep. issue from UK. There, I don't have enough quarters to qualify for the minimum
so they would have either 1. used my US quarters to qualify or I could have paid voluntary contributions if they had informed me correctly when I inquired. This inquiry was not just once but I spoke at various times to different departments , different people and all told me the same thing. 10 years required and if you don't have it you are not entitled. You are correct, I can pay 2 years but it would not bring me up to 10 and they would just duplicate 2 of my US years so would not help. According to the pension office part of the reason all of this is delayed is that they have to get my actual records fromthe archives and make sure that nothing is duplicated in the US as if records are the same they cancel out. My argument is if they had responded to my inquiries correctly even in 2008 when there was correspondence I would have been within the time frame to pay and would have done so. Also I think that there was a special circumstance that gave longer to pay certain years due to a government error and that they were supposed to be actively promoting this so people could pay. (Don't have all the info for this in front of me right now so facts are a bit sketchy) Paid up full in the US is the total of the highest paid 35 years you ever worked. All the other years are dropped of. So if you had 35 years in US you would get the full pension. Plus if you had 4 years in the UK, you would get 1/30th of a full pension, multiplied by 4. Two separate checks. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by Mallory
(Post 8020444)
In the UK you don't need 11 years minimum anymore. You can get paid for 1 year. The pension is paid up full in 30 years. For every year that you have worked in the UK you get 1/30th of a pension. Multiple however many years you worked, by 1/30th of the full state pension.
Paid up full in the US is the total of the highest paid 35 years you ever worked. All the other years are dropped of. So if you had 35 years in US you would get the full pension. Plus if you had 4 years in the UK, you would get 1/30th of a full pension, multiplied by 4. Two separate checks. pension age so years needed for my age is 10 to qualify for 1/4 basic State Pension and I think 39 years is max for women and 44 for men. It's more involved than US as payments are dependent on age Also, in US your pension increases every year that you defer taking it and receives special incentives to wait until age 70 I believe. If you continue to work and pay after 70 I believe it will increase also but don't know what happens if you are entitled to maximum. Us pension depends on how much you pay in. Yes, there is a minimum time required. I think 10 years. Benefits are tied into what you paid from tax of 15% of net income. This is mostly divided between employer and employee unless you are self employed and pay full 15%. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8020439)
No, I know nothing about class2 contributions and as stated above, have enough US years. They have nothing to do with UK pensions. Nun, I am trying to be patient but are you interrogating me or trying to help? I feel I have already volunteered more than enough information. I asked for feedback as I am very frustrated with the whole process and am sharing what happens to help other people. Anyway, I am past all of this and unless I can pay Class 2 retroactively and enough to make a difference they are irrelevant to my problem
Unfortunately i think that you'll find it hard to get the pensions service to budge. But you do have the US pension, which is a good benefit. I think your situation must be frustrating, but it should be a lesson for UK expats that it's best to stay in the NI system and pay Class 2 contributions. That way you'll be able to get enough contributions to qualify for the pension. One thing that may help how you feel is the US Windfall Elimination Provision. This reduces your US SS if you get another pension. There is a calculator of the US SS website that helps you estimate this reduction. In my case I have 15 years of US SS payments and qualify for $1150/month at age 62. If I include the $600/month of a UK basic state pension this reduces my US SS payment to $950/month. So not getting the UK benefit isn't quite as bad as it might initially seem. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8021395)
I suppose I am interrogating you, but I hope in s good way. I was just unclear about your exact situation and that is going to be critical to how the pensions service deals with your case.
Unfortunately i think that you'll find it hard to get the pensions service to budge. But you do have the US pension, which is a good benefit. I think your situation must be frustrating, but it should be a lesson for UK expats that it's best to stay in the NI system and pay Class 2 contributions. That way you'll be able to get enough contributions to qualify for the pension. One thing that may help how you feel is the US Windfall Elimination Provision. This reduces your US SS if you get another pension. There is a calculator of the US SS website that helps you estimate this reduction. In my case I have 15 years of US SS payments and qualify for $1150/month at age 62. If I include the $600/month of a UK basic state pension this reduces my US SS payment to $950/month. So not getting the UK benefit isn't quite as bad as it might initially seem. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by Boodles
(Post 8021693)
Nun, can you tell me where I can find the calculator re windfall eliminatin provision, I looked but can't seem to track it down? thank you
http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/wep-chart.htm |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8021395)
I suppose I am interrogating you, but I hope in s good way. I was just unclear about your exact situation and that is going to be critical to how the pensions service deals with your case.
Unfortunately i think that you'll find it hard to get the pensions service to budge. But you do have the US pension, which is a good benefit. I think your situation must be frustrating, but it should be a lesson for UK expats that it's best to stay in the NI system and pay Class 2 contributions. That way you'll be able to get enough contributions to qualify for the pension. One thing that may help how you feel is the US Windfall Elimination Provision. This reduces your US SS if you get another pension. There is a calculator of the US SS website that helps you estimate this reduction. In my case I have 15 years of US SS payments and qualify for $1150/month at age 62. If I include the $600/month of a UK basic state pension this reduces my US SS payment to $950/month. So not getting the UK benefit isn't quite as bad as it might initially seem. I have not received an answer yet to an extension of time to pay Voluntary contributions I received a year's back payment and the first monthly payment has been processed but not arrived as of yet. However I was told that an extension of time has been requested for me to pay VC due to my having received wrong information and lack of information. Now I have to wait for an answer. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8021776)
Here it is, the link to the calculator is a little down the page. You have to manually type in your wage history, but you should have that in the US SS forcast that you get every year.
http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/wep-chart.htm |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8021395)
I suppose I am interrogating you, but I hope in s good way. I was just unclear about your exact situation and that is going to be critical to how the pensions service deals with your case.
Unfortunately i think that you'll find it hard to get the pensions service to budge. But you do have the US pension, which is a good benefit. I think your situation must be frustrating, but it should be a lesson for UK expats that it's best to stay in the NI system and pay Class 2 contributions. That way you'll be able to get enough contributions to qualify for the pension. One thing that may help how you feel is the US Windfall Elimination Provision. This reduces your US SS if you get another pension. There is a calculator of the US SS website that helps you estimate this reduction. In my case I have 15 years of US SS payments and qualify for $1150/month at age 62. If I include the $600/month of a UK basic state pension this reduces my US SS payment to $950/month. So not getting the UK benefit isn't quite as bad as it might initially seem. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by dunroving
(Post 8023513)
Wow, that's news to me. So people in the US who pay into private pension schemes may be setting themselves up to receive a reduced SS pension? Or does this only apply to other "state pensions"?
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10045.html When you apply for SS you should be asked about other pensions you are receiving. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8023918)
The Windfall Elimination Provision is applied when you receive a pension from work where you don't pay social security taxes ie. FICA. This mostly applies to US state workers who pay into a state's retirement plan and don't contribute to social security, but who also have SS credits from a previous job. However, any pension you get that is from work were you don't pay FICA taxes is also included, so UK state and private pensions too.
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10045.html When you apply for SS you should be asked about other pensions you are receiving. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8023975)
WEP does not apply to survivor's benefits.
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Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by dunroving
(Post 8023513)
Wow, that's news to me. So people in the US who pay into private pension schemes may be setting themselevs up to receive a reduced SS pension? Or does this only apply to other "state pensions"?
Windfall Elimination Provisions If you are entitled to a UK State Pension based on work after 1956, the amount of your US Retirement or Disability Benefit may be reduced in certain circumstances because of provisions in US law (Windfall Elimination Provisions). However, your US benefit will never be reduced by more than one half of that part of your UK State Pension based on work after 1956. Any part of your UK State Pension based on voluntary contributions to the UK will not affect the amount of your US benefit. Entitlement to UK widows' benefits and bereavement benefits, however, will not cause a reduction in your US benefit. If you are a woman in receipt of UK Widow's Benefit, it may be better to continue getting that benefit until age 65 rather than claim UK State Pension at age 60. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8025052)
So I just found this paragraph on a UK gov website. It looks like the portion of your UK state pension that is due to voluntary contributions is NOT counted in the WEP. So this is another reason for UK citizens in the US who are paying FICA to also keep up those voluntary Class 2 NI contributions.
Windfall Elimination Provisions If you are entitled to a UK State Pension based on work after 1956, the amount of your US Retirement or Disability Benefit may be reduced in certain circumstances because of provisions in US law (Windfall Elimination Provisions). However, your US benefit will never be reduced by more than one half of that part of your UK State Pension based on work after 1956. Any part of your UK State Pension based on voluntary contributions to the UK will not affect the amount of your US benefit. Entitlement to UK widows' benefits and bereavement benefits, however, will not cause a reduction in your US benefit. If you are a woman in receipt of UK Widow's Benefit, it may be better to continue getting that benefit until age 65 rather than claim UK State Pension at age 60. I have US widow's pension and now small UK pension. I have worked in US for enough years to be eligible for a pension. You cannot collect on both your own and survivors so the larger of the two is collected and if working continue to contribute to my own work record. If at any time my benefits are more than survivors then I can change to collecting from mine. Hopefully this will clear up any confusion. (It sure would be nice to be able to collect multiples as you thought...ah well, maybe someday....LOL |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8024981)
.....ok so now I'm confused. You have US SS, and a widow's pension. Where is that widow's pension coming from? Does the US SS treat UK widow's benefit's differently from UK basic state pension? The WEP rules just say that it applies to any pension that comes from work where SS taxes aren't paid so surely any benefit form the UK would be included.
In US even as a divorced spouse, as long as you were married for 10 years you are entitled to claim spousal and/or widows benefits. This applies even if you have remarried. As long as any subsequent marriage has ended and you are single at time of application for benefits, US will calculate benefits due on your own and ALL qualified spousal benefits and allow you collect on the largest. Also re-marriage after age 60 will not effect spousal pension. The UK only considers the last marriage. I hope this information is helpful. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8022303)
Well I am officially a UK pensioner. Pension service has sent me money through my bank. I have not received the letter of explanation yet but got as much info as I could by phone.
I have not received an answer yet to an extension of time to pay Voluntary contributions I received a year's back payment and the first monthly payment has been processed but not arrived as of yet. However I was told that an extension of time has been requested for me to pay VC due to my having received wrong information and lack of information. Now I have to wait for an answer. verbally that HMRC has agreed with me in my dispute. I will be allowed to make voluntary contributions for the necessary years provided I do so within 8 weeks of notification of determination. I am so pleased and excited. You would think they told me I would be getting a million dollars. I don't want to try to pre-determine amounts before I am officially notified. Of course with the postal strike, who knows when I will receive the notification. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8028471)
I spoke with pension service today. Still no letters but I have been informed
verbally that HMRC has agreed with me in my dispute. I will be allowed to make voluntary contributions for the necessary years provided I do so within 8 weeks of notification of determination. I am so pleased and excited. You would think they told me I would be getting a million dollars. I don't want to try to pre-determine amounts before I am officially notified. Of course with the postal strike, who knows when I will receive the notification. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8028601)
Congratulations, so how many years of VCs are we talking about?
the man said possibly not definitely.I am not going to jump to conclusions at this point. I don't want to go through a "to do" again and he said "possibly" so it could just be 6. What he was definite about was that I would be able to pay what I was entitled to at first contact and would not be affected by the 4/2009 cut off. |
Re: pension problems
Great news Alba1, :thumbsup:I hope it makes a real difference to how and when you can go home.:)
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Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by Boodles
(Post 8028940)
Great news Alba1, :thumbsup:I hope it makes a real difference to how and when you can go home.:)
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Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8028471)
I spoke with pension service today. Still no letters but I have been informed verbally that HMRC has agreed with me in my dispute.
That department has long had a system for making good where people have lost out...You might be surprised by admissions of errors. They do happen...errors and admissions I mean. As was shown in the JSA thread (even though it didn't please some folk :p) some well reasoned, polite, arguments and a bit of persistence can go a long way. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 8029021)
Just thought I'd smugly point out what I said earlier.
:thumbup: As was shown in the JSA thread (even though it didn't please some folk :p) some well reasoned, polite, arguments and a bit of persistence can go a long way. wrong and sounded quite surprised themselves that it was approved. I have already stated this to the department. I actually spoke to the international claims who called revenue and customs and determined that everything was in the hands of the decision maker and maybe in 2 weeks I would know. I called them when I hung up and the gentleman who answered the phone knew who I was right away and told me they just got a phone call approving my request to pay the VC allowable at point of first contact providing they are paid within 8 weeks of determination. I feel so relieved and happy. Someone used common sense. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8029081)
Yes you are right and if the letter bears out what they told me, I will admit I misjudged the department. However they did say they did not admit they were
wrong and sounded quite surprised themselves that it was approved. I have already stated this to the department. I actually spoke to the international claims who called revenue and customs and determined that everything was in the hands of the decision maker and maybe in 2 weeks I would know. I called them when I hung up and the gentleman who answered the phone knew who I was right away and told me they just got a phone call approving my request to pay the VC allowable at point of first contact providing they are paid within 8 weeks of determination. I feel so relieved and happy. Someone used common sense. and encouragement |
Re: pension problems
I just wish more people would follow things through when something's gone wrong.*
Unfortunately too many just get angry and give up. Edited to add * especially when actually in the UK with so many organisations available to help. |
Re: pension problems
hi alba,i have a booklet thatdeals with pensions whilst abroad and have a telephone number that you can contact 1912254811ring them they are very helpful ask them about the following booklets as regards pensions
ni38 social security abroad a guide to state pensions also ask them for a state pension forcast,as the rulig has now changed that after 57 years employment you are entitled to a full state pension,also ladies that took time out to look after childrenwhen they were first born that has now changed also hope that this info and phone numbers help you good luck:) |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by chasandange
(Post 8029343)
hi alba,i have a booklet thatdeals with pensions whilst abroad and have a telephone number that you can contact 1912254811ring them they are very helpful ask them about the following booklets as regards pensions
ni38 social security abroad a guide to state pensions Also does anyone know what's going on with the HMRC website. It's been down for months! http://hepwww.rl.ac.uk/CMSecal/Info/ni38.Social Security Abroad pdf.pdf Alba, now that you have the pension sorted are you up to date with the tax implications? Specifically the UK/US tax treaty! |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8030476)
Also does anyone know what's going on with the HMRC website. It's been down for months!
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/index.htm - can you access that? |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by rebs
(Post 8030805)
I've not had a problem accessing the HMRC website - which part are you having trouble with?
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/index.htm - can you access that? |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8030838)
HMRC site ...is not compatible with Firefox. Typical!
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Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by nun
(Post 8030476)
NI38 is an excellent guide. It's required reading for all expats. I'm happy that Alba's story looks like it will end happily, but maybe we should learn that a little planning can go a long way and save us a lot of stress. Here's a link to NI38, cut and paste the linmk are there are some issues with spaces in the text.
Also does anyone know what's going on with the HMRC website. It's been down for months! http://hepwww.rl.ac.uk/CMSecal/Info/ni38.Social Security Abroad pdf.pdf Alba, now that you have the pension sorted are you up to date with the tax implications? Specifically the UK/US tax treaty! I have not received my mail from the pension service as of yet. They say that they mailed them on 10/5 but nothing yet so who knows when the final determination will arrive. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8028615)
waiting to find out in writing this time.
the man said possibly not definitely.I am not going to jump to conclusions at this point. I don't want to go through a "to do" again and he said "possibly" so it could just be 6. What he was definite about was that I would be able to pay what I was entitled to at first contact and would not be affected by the 4/2009 cut off. I had requested to offset what is owed to me now by the pension service against what I owe for contributions. Almost sorry I asked. One woman told me they will work off the amount I am getting now. I don't think that is right as now my US information will be scrapped so to speak and my VC will come into play. If I could just get the numbers I could make decisions. I am more interested in raising pension than large lump sums but it is quite a bit of money and I only have a short time to pay. Does anyone know anything about this? I have been assured that I will not lose out on the years I did not collect but now it may not be so..I think the postal strike will be the hold back so I am trying to get this verbally. It Don't know why they can't email. Also my documents have not arrived but the letters from the department have and they were mailed later. |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8040254)
Hope this posts Ok as last post jumped and wouldn't let me finish. It gone to the great post land in the sky...lol I am getting a little crazy. I am back to getting all sorts of information.... different every time.
I had requested to offset what is owed to me now by the pension service against what I owe for contributions. Almost sorry I asked. One woman told me they will work off the amount I am getting now. I don't think that is right as now my US information will be scrapped so to speak and my VC will come into play. If I could just get the numbers I could make decisions. I am more interested in raising pension than large lump sums but it is quite a bit of money and I only have a short time to pay. Does anyone know anything about this? I have been assured that I will not lose out on the years I did not collect but now it may not be so..I think the postal strike will be the hold back so I am trying to get this verbally. It Don't know why they can't email. Also my documents have not arrived but the letters from the department have and they were mailed later. Even if they won't send you emails, do you have an email address for them? If so, I recommend you a) get the name of whichever person you speak to (not just first name - there are stacks of Adams and Susans, and the conversation won't be as traceable without full details), and b) after the conversation, write down every important detail of what was said, and finish with "My understanding from our conversation, therefore, is that X, Y, and Z" That way you won't be stuck in a "he said/she said" argument sometime in the future where the arbitrator says it's your word against theirs. With a typed record that gives them the opportunity to correct any misunderstandings, you would be in a stronger position to appeal if you have written evidence, |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by dunroving
(Post 8040939)
Even if they won't send you emails, do you have an email address for them? If so, I recommend you a) get the name of whichever person you speak to (not just first name - there are stacks of Adams and Susans, and the conversation won't be as traceable without full details), and b) after the conversation, write down every important detail of what was said, and finish with "My understanding from our conversation, therefore, is that X, Y, and Z"
That way you won't be stuck in a "he said/she said" argument sometime in the future where the arbitrator says it's your word against theirs. With a typed record that gives them the opportunity to correct any misunderstandings, you would be in a stronger position to appeal if you have written evidence, |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8041162)
that's a great idea. Don't know why it didn't occur to me as I do that for many different situations. that's why this board is so great, it jogs your memory and gives great advice. thank you. I don't have an exact email address for them but I will get it at next contact.
included, postmarked 14th received today 24th.....duh? |
Re: pension problems
Originally Posted by alba1
(Post 8042402)
finally got documents back. mailed on 7th(on voicemail) letter marked 10th
included, postmarked 14th received today 24th.....duh? even though I would have paid this 4 years ago if I had been informed then. I don't understand their reasoning and am not sure they are correct. very confusing. |
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