nun

Well they were wrong to refuse Boris entry then. What happens you you at the border is a lottery, nothing, fine, refused entry - any could happen

lansbury

He wasn't refused entry. The airline security staff spotted it and he wasn't allowed to board the aircraft to Houston.

http://www.boris-johnson.com/2006/08...ican-passport/

nun

It's a messy situation. I suppose Airline Security can refuse you boarding for anything, but the reason they gave

"The US Immigration say you have to travel on an American passport if you want to enter the United States."

would seem to be false according to a previous post.

So maybe the US has to let you in if you are a US citizen with or without a US passport, but a US carrier can refuse to take you to the US with out a US passport.......either way you are courting trouble as a US citizen if you attempt to fly to the US on another passport.

ian-mstm

I think you need to switch to decaf... there are many fine brands from which to choose. Your help vis-à-vis taxes is most excellent... but I think that's where you should draw the line with respect to immigration advice.

Ian

nun

Unfortunately I'm already on decaf. So what's the exact situation with US citizens coming to the the US on another passport? It's obviously not advisible. I was commenting on what seems to be a highly confusing situation, my intent was not to further confuse matters. What's the policy of US carriers? and is it different from the official immigration rules?

lansbury

It's pretty much the same with the US and UK, and most other comparable countries. If you are a citizen of that country the relevant immigration authority cannot refuse you entry. The onus is on you to provide proof of such citizenship. A British passport showing you were born in the US, might be ample proof of such. But then again there are exceptions to getting automatic citizenship just because you were born in the US.

The airlines policy is the airlines policy. Again most countries levy a fine on the carrier if they bring in someone without the correct paperwork. Most airlines will go on the side of safety and refuse to take you if they think there will be a problem on arrival. They don't have to be right, but it is their decision.

nun

That's what I figured, only the UK doesn't mind at all if a UK citizen uses another passport to enter the UK.

So what exactly happens if a US citizen gets to US immigration and presents a UK passport and the immigration officer sees a US place of birth and asks if the passport holder is a US citizen?

The US Embassy in London has an interesting opinion on this, 3rd paragraph down.

http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new...tizenship.html

JAJ

The standard way to come into compliance is simply to file 6 years tax returns and FBAR, etc. forms. That's what most Americans overseas who don't owe any money to the IRS have done. I am not sure what is the real benefit (for someone in this situation, who probably owes little or no tax) of joining any tax amnesty or disclosure program - just seems to complicate matters.

If taking professional advice, then the option of simply filing 6 years returns without joining an amnesty program should be the first option and the others only considered after some serious discussion. At a minimum, calculate taxes owed and if it's zero or close to zero, consider strongly the option of filing the returns via the standard method.

The potential fines for FBAR are significant but except for those in the "disclosure" programs and for those criminally prosecuted (not that common) I have not heard of a single reported case where the IRS has levied a penalty.

What concerns me is that U.S. citizens are being scared into renouncing their U.S. citizenship. In coming years we will see some of them wanting it back and that won't be an option unless they can qualify as an immigrant like anyone else.

nun

Renunciation is a serious step for those US citizens with strong ties to the US. For those that are "accidental citizens" they might find it the most appropriate thing to do. But they should consider the ability to live and work in the US against the tax filing obligations and PFIC issues when making the decision.

If no tax is due on back taxes then there will be no fines for filing. There are possible fines for filing of late FBARS, the uncertainty of how or whether the IRS will impose those fines is part of the dilemma faced by non-compliant US citizens. Given the complexity of international taxation I would get professional advice in all but the simplest of situations.

ian-mstm

Indeed, but it is opinion only, and does not reflect the whole truth. I've fixed it to reflect what might actually happen:

"If your U.S. passport has been lost or stolen, or if it has expired, you must apply to replace it before traveling to the United States... in order to avoid any possible fine for not using your US passport to enter the US, but you'll still be allowed to enter."

Ian

nun

The fact that incorrect information is given on the US Embassy website and similar information was used as the justification for refusing Boris Johnson boarding onto a plane going to Huston shows the confusion surrounding this matter. Are there any real world examples of what happens if a US citizen arrives at US immigration on a foreign passport.

Marocco

If I remember correctly (the article has since disappeared) he was actually denied boarding in the UK on a US-bound flight.

ian-mstm

There is no confusion surrounding this matter. Whether the airline gave him correct or incorrect information is irrelevant - US citizens have the right of entry to the US... regardless of what the airline says. If the airline refuses to allow him to board, that's between him and the airline... nothing to do with him and US immigration.

Ian

nun

I know that there's no confusion on this board, but the US Embassy is confused and that's a worry. What actually happens if a US citizen presents a non-US passport to US immigration and what recourse do you have if the immigration official is as confused as the Embassy. Would you be allowed to enter but then fined or detained for not using the US passport? Are there any actual examples of this happening? The law seems to be quite explicit, but how is it enforced? and what documentation would be required to prove US citizenship.

ian-mstm

I'm guessing they're not actually confused. What's on the web site is their easiest solution to the situation... whether or not it actually reflects what the law says. Most people will simply follow their suggestion... but they don't actually need to.


They may be fined, but they won't be refused entry.


I think you're assuming they're confused when, in fact, they're not.


Yes, but more likely fined rather than detained.


I'm sure there are.


Unless there's an overt indication that a person is a USC (such as a US place of birth on a foreign passport), then CBP likely won't know that the person is a USC.


Well, a US birth certificate or passport would do the trick... but I believe that claim to US citizenship is an affirming act, so the US government would need to prove that he wasn't a USC. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm off base on this.

Ian