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Obtaining a social security # with k3 visa

Obtaining a social security # with k3 visa

Old Jan 14th 2002, 2:18 pm
  #1  
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Hi all

Does anybody know the requirements are on obtaining a social security # with a k3 visa? I tried to get one for my wife and the social security admin. told me she needs to get authorization to work first. I've heard stories that k type visa aren't requred to get authorization to work??

Any suggestions??

- Thanks,

khabibiuf

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Old Jan 14th 2002, 2:44 pm
  #2  
Mjones
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It is very possible that the Social Security Administration will amend their
procedures and allow a K3 to obtain a SSN by simply showing proof of their status as
a K3, similar to what the SSA does for the
K1. Until the SSA indicates by word or action that this is what they will do, the
K3/K4 will need to obtain an EAD prior to obtaining a SSN. The Social Security
card will state "valid for employment only with INS authorization".

Mike
 
Old Jan 14th 2002, 3:29 pm
  #3  
Ben Johnson
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A person on a k-3 is entitled to a social security number, just as a K-1 is, (on the
same basis of being work authorized).

The problem is nobody at the Social Secuurity office knows this yet, as they are not
allowed to use thier brain apparently, and logically deduce that the same SSA
information that applies to a K-1, applies to a K-3.

It will come, but in the meantime, you may as well get the EAD...especially if your
wife intends on working anyway.

Ben

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Old Jan 14th 2002, 5:57 pm
  #4  
John O'Donnell
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We asked the same questions

hmmm all the rules say a k3 is authorized to work but you cant work without a social
security number!

okay so we applied via chicago for an EAD via chicago. The good news is we got an NOA
back in less than a week. Called up the center for a fingerprint appointment and got
one the next day.

so the next day i walked into the INS support center at oakland, ca and was shown
into a room where they took my fingerprint, photo and signature.

Now it goes for an fbi check and i get authorization etc

its a pain but for k3 holders at least its a fast process

hope this helps

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[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > Hi all [/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > Does anybody know the requirements are on obtaining a social security # with a k3[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > visa? I tried to get one for my wife and the social security admin. told me she[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > needs to get authorization to work first. I've heard stories that k type visa[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > aren't requred to get authorization to work??[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > Any suggestions??[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > - Thanks,[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > khabibiuf[/usenetquote2]
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Old Jan 14th 2002, 7:17 pm
  #5  
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Thanks for the help guys...

John,

Have you already filed the paperwork for AOS (adjustment of status)? I might have some questions for you if you've already done so.


Thanks,

- Khabibiuf
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Old Jan 14th 2002, 8:11 pm
  #6  
Michael D. Young
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Ben Johnson wrote:

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Hi All!

Yep, you are right no one at SSA knows this yet. Who told you CIA or NSA? LOL

First INS decides which aliens can work not SSA and unless things have changed since
last Thursday. K2/3/4 No EAD No work authorized SSN.

Take care,

Mike
 
Old Jan 14th 2002, 8:58 pm
  #7  
Ben Johnson
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Do you think you are telling me any news ?

The INS has ALREADY decided that the K-3 is a work authorized visa.......

From the INS's own document.. "Aliens admitted to the United States as a K-3 or K-4
nonimmigrant will be authorized to work incident to status, as are K-1 and K-2
nonimmigrants. "

In other words...by virture of being a K-1 OR K-3...they ARE work authorized.

Absent a specific rule that states a K-3 needs an EAD, then they should be treated
as a K-1. They will eventually....I don't need the CIA or NSA telling me what is
common sense.

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Old Jan 14th 2002, 9:10 pm
  #8  
Michael D. Young
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Ben Johnson wrote:

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[usenetquote2]> > Hi All![/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > Yep, you are right no one at SSA knows this yet. Who told you CIA or NSA?[/usenetquote2]
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[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > First INS decides which aliens can work not SSA and unless things have[/usenetquote2]
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[usenetquote2]> > since last Thursday. K2/3/4 No EAD No work authorized SSN.[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > Take care,[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> > Mike [/usenetquote2]
[usenetquote2]> >[/usenetquote2]

Hi All!

Well being work authorized and having work authorization are not the same thing.

Take care,

Mike
 
Old Jan 14th 2002, 9:43 pm
  #9  
Mjones
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Lets review, cause I think you are the first to give us details of this.

1. Apply by mail with I-765 to Chicago.
2. Get NOA, and are instructed to call INS support center.
3. Processed for EAD at support center.
4. Get EAD in mail (?) after FBI check.

Is that right? Mike
 
Old Jan 14th 2002, 10:47 pm
  #10  
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Default

I have to throw in a few things here.

The K-1 is work authorized ONLY for 90 days. The 90 days that their K-1 is valid for. After that time they are required by INS law to obtain a one year EAD document in order to work (renewable if necessary) until their AOS is completed.

The K-3 enters the US for what? A period of two years? With the freedom to work and come and go at will without having to file for AOS until the end of that two year period if they wish.

Does this mean that it is assumed that from day one of entry that a K-3 can work without having an actual EAD in their possession? What will they be using as proof? Does the K-3 in their passport clearly and unequivably state that the K-3 is work authorized? If so, why are they required to apply for a separate EAD upon entry when they come to the US?

If they are required to apply for an EAD upon entry in order to work, then where is it written that the Social Security Administration MUST allow them to obtain a work authorized social security card without having this EAD in their possession?

I believe you are all assuming that the K-3 has the same rights as the K-1 for working and obtaining a SS card upon entry to the US. But I have yet to see anything in DocSteen's site or the INS site that says this.

Just my take on it.

Rita
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Old Jan 15th 2002, 2:27 pm
  #11  
Dennis
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"Michael D. Young" wrote:
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Thanks Mike, I have tried to tell others the same that just because the visa allows
to work it doesn't in and of itself show an employer that you have authorization and
that is what the EAD card or stamp is for. So on that fact you do need an EAD card to
get SS #. I know there are a few that got it with out the EAd but they are the
exception more than the rule, so save some hassle and get the EAD card before
applying. Dennis
 
Old Jan 15th 2002, 7:36 pm
  #12  
Ben Johnson
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Nonsense....

Yes, just because someone is work authorized, does not mean they can work without
"authorization" (EAD).....but that has nothing to do with the Social Security Number.

You are not applying for a job at the Social Security Office !

All they are conderned about, is that you are work authorized.......typically, the
easiest way to prove this is with an EAD, Green card etc. .....another way, for them
to simply understand that someone is work authorized incident to thier status....as
in the case of the K-1 (and by all rights, a K-3), this proven with simply an I-94
and their visa.

Ben

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Old Jan 15th 2002, 7:54 pm
  #13  
Michael D. Young
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Ben Johnson wrote:

Hi All!

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You need an SF-171 for that.

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This does not include K-3/4, but they fall in same category as K-2

RM 00203.500 Employment Authorization for Nonimmigrants

IMPORTANT: EM-00032 affects this section. See AO 49905.032. EM-00154, which obsoletes
EM-00009, affects this section and is in AO 49905.154. In addition, EM-01061 is in AO
49906.061 and affects this section.

A. INTRODUCTION INS determines whether an alien can work in
employment/self-employment in the U.S. Under certain circumstances, INS gives
nonimmigrants permission to work. Some aliens have employment authorization by
virtue of their alien classification. Others must apply for employment
authorization. Still others are not allowed to work while in the U.S.

B. POLICY - EVIDENCE OF EMPLOYMENT AUTHORIZATION Required evidence for employment
authorization is shown below. DO NOT process an application for an SSN card for
an alien for work purposes unless the alien is authorized to work and shows the
appropriate INS document authorizing work.
1. General - Evidence of Employment Authorization a. Acceptable Documents Employment
authorization for nonimmigrants can be determined by: the alien's classification
as shown on the I-94 (see the alien classifications in C.1.); or the "employment
authorization" annotation on the I-94 for a refugee (RM
1.1A.1.); or the designated school official's annotation on Form I-20 ID for certain
F-1s; or the IAP-66/sponsor letter for J-1s; or the INS Employment
Authorization Document (EAD). NOTE: The documents listed above are the only
documents which FOs may accept as evidence of employment authorization. See C.
below for a description of the nonimmigrant classifications and how to
determine employment authorization. b. Description of Employment Authorization
Each employment authorization issued by INS on Form I-94 or EAD should contain
all of the following: A statement of any regulatory limits on the time
elements involved and a definite date as to when employment begins and ends
(not indefinite). A statement of any regulatory limits on the type of
employment authorized (as for example in F-1 and M-1 cases) or the statement
"WITHOUT FURTHER LIMITATION," if no such regulatory limits exist. The date of
action and the office three-letter identifying code or the identifying number
of the officer authorizing employment. REMINDER: Any INS document which does
not conform to the criteria above is not acceptable.
2. Form I-688B, Employment Authorization Document (EAD)

a. General INS issues EADs to all aliens regardless of age with work authorization
except for lawful permanent residents, legalization aliens with I-688s, and those
nonimmigrant aliens whose work authorization is incident to their class of
admission. The I-688B is a standardized and uniform document which provides
evidence of authorization for the alien to accept temporary employment in the
U.S. It replaces the "employment authorized" stamp previously placed on other INS
documents issued to nonimmigrants. b. Description The I-688B is a laminated card.
The front contains the alien's photograph, fingerprint (or "W" for waived in lieu
of the fingerprint), signature, biographic information (name, date of birth), the
provision of law, any restrictions as to type or length of employment
authorization, and the date and place of issue. The issuing office's location
code is on the right side of the photo box, comprised of four letters which
reflect the District or POE code and the specific workstation at that location.
The reverse side contains a preprinted legend and the outlines of the continental
U.S., Alaska and Hawaii. The I-688B should not be confused with the documents
which were issued to aliens who applied for legalization. The
Administrative-Confidential Memorandum gives a more complete description and the
INS booklet, "What Color Is Your Green Card?" shows a color facsimile of the
I-688B. c. Exhibit - Form I-688B Front Printer Friendly Version Reverse Printer
Friendly Version C. POLICY - EMPLOYMENT AUTHORIZATION BY CLASS OF ADMISSION The
following policy applies to employment authorization by class of admission.

1. Aliens Work Authorized Without Specific INS Authorization The following lists
nonimmigrants, by alien classification, who are authorized to work in the U.S.
without specific authorization from INS. The alien's I-94 will not have the INS
employment authorization stamp and the alien will not have an EAD. For those with
an asterisk, the principal alien, spouse, and child all have the same visa
symbol. FO: Ask the alien which he/she is and see C.2. and C.3. below if the
alien is the spouse or child.

Class of Admission Description A-1* Ambassador, public minister, career diplomat or
consular officer A-2* Other foreign government official or employee A-3* Attendant,
servant, or personal employee of principal A-1, or A-2 C-3* Foreign government
official in transit through the U.S. E-1* Treaty trader E-2* Treaty investor F-1
Academic student - for on-campus employment, and DSO authorized off-campus practical
training. (See RM 00203.470) G-1* Resident representative of recognized foreign
member government to an international organization G-2* Other temporary
representative of recognized foreign member government to an international
organization G-3* Representative of unrecognized or nonmember foreign government to
an international organization G-4* Representative of international organization
(officer or employee) G-5* Attendant, servant, or personal employee of principal G-1,
G-2, G-3, or G-4 H-1A Registered nurse H-1B Worker in a specialty occupation H-2A
Agricultural worker H-2B Non-agrarian seasonal worker H-3 Trainee I* Foreign
information media representative J-1 Exchange visitor (pursuant to an approved
program) (See RM 00203.480) L-1 Intracompany transferee NATO-1 through 6* NATO
officer, representative, or personnel NATO-7* Attendant, servant, of personal
employee of principal NATO-1 through 6 O-1 Alien with extraordinary ability in
sciences, arts, education, business or athletics O-2 Alien accompanying O-1 P-1
Internationally recognized athlete or entertainer in an internationally recognized
group P-2 Artist or entertainer in an exchange program P-3 Artist or entertainer in a
culturally unique program Q Cultural exchange visitor R-1 Religious worker with a
nonprofit religious organization TC Professional business person, United
States-Canada Free Trade Act (FTA) TN Professional business person from Canada or
Mexico, North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)

2. Aliens Who Require an EAD From INS Authorizing Employment

The following lists nonimmigrants, by alien classification, who are authorized to
work with authorization from INS. Employment authorization must be shown on an EAD.

EXCEPTION: Employment authorization may be shown on the I-94 for a refugee, on Form
I-20 ID for an F-1, or on a sponsor"s letter for a J-1.

A-1, A-2 Spouse or child of principal A-1, A-2 alien (provision of law:
2a.1(a)(1)) B-1 Visitor for business who is: A personal or domestic servant
accompanying or following a employer admitted to the U.S. as a
nonimmigrant (provision of the law: 274a.12(c)(17)(i)) A domestic servant
accompanying or following a U.S. citizen employer (the employer has a
permanent home or is stationed in a foreign country and is temporarily in
the U.S.) (provision of the law: 274a.12(c)(17)(ii)) An employee of a
foreign airline and the employee is not a national of the country of the
airline"s nationality (provision of the law: 274a.12(c)(17)(iii)) NOTE:
The instructions in section C.3. apply if the B-1 alien is not authorized
to work under one of the above situations. E-1 Spouse or child of
principal E-1 employee of the Coordination Council for North America
Affairs (provision of law: 274a.12(c)(2) F-1 Academic student - for
employment while F-1 is pursuing a full course of study or authorized
optional practical training (provision of law: optional practical training
-274a.12(c)(3)(i); employment with an international organization
-274a.12(c)(3)(ii); economic hardship -
2a.1(a)(1)(i)) G-1, G-3, G-4 Spouse or child of principal G-1, G-3, G-4, alien
(provision of law:
2a.1(a)(2)) J-2 Spouse or dependent child of J-1 alien (provision of law:
2a.1(a)(3)) K-1, K-2 Fiance(e) of U.S. citizen or child of such alien
(provision of law:
2a.1(a)(4)) M-1 Nonacademic student - for practical training (provision of law:
2a.1(a)(5)) NATO - 1 through 7 Spouse or child of principal NATO - 1 through 7 alien
(provision of law: 274a.12(c)(7)) N-8 Parent of alien granted permanent
residence (provision of law:
2a.1(a)(6)) N-9 Child of alien granted permanent residence (provision of law:

2a.1(a)(7)) S-5 Alien supplying critical information relating to a criminal
organization or enterprise (provision of law: 274a.12(c)(21)) S-6 Alien
supplying critical information relating to a counter terrorism matter
(provision of law: 274a.12(c)(21)) S-7 Spouse or child of S-5 or S-6 alien
(provision of law:
2a.1(a)(8)) Refugee Alien admitted pursuant to section 207 of the Immigration and
Nationality Act (INA) (provision of law: 274a.12(a)(3)) Parolee Alien
paroled temporarily into the U.S. (provision of law:
2a.1(a)(9) or 274a.12(c)(11)) Asylee Asylee under 208 of the INA (provision of law:
274a.12(a)(5) for grantee or 274a.12(c)(8) for applicant) Adjustment
applicant Applicant for adjustment to permanent resident alien under
section 245 of INA (provision of law: 274a.12(c)(9)) Applicant for
creation of a record of lawful admission for permanent residence pursuant
to section 249 of the INA (provision of law: 274a.12(c)(16)) Family Unity
Program Alien Alien granted voluntary departure under the Family Unity
Program (provision of law:
2a.1(a)(10)) Temporary Protected Status alien Alien granted Temporary Protected
Status pursuant to section 244A of the INA (provision of law:
274a.12(a)(12)) Applicant for Temporary Protected Status pursuant to
section 244A of the INA (provision of law: 274a.12(c)(19)) Deportable
Alien Alien granted withholding of deportation pursuant to section
2(b) of INA (provision of law: 274a.12(a)(10)); Alien granted extended voluntary
departure (provision of law:
2b.1(a)(1)); Applicant for suspension of deportation pursuant to section 244 of the
INA (provision of law: 274a.12(c)(10)); Alien granted voluntary departure
(provision of law:
2b.1(a)(2)); Alien granted deferred action (provision of law:
2b.1(a)(3)) Alien for whom there is a final order of deportation and who is released
on an order of supervision pursuant to section 242(d) of the INA
(provision of law: 274a.12(c)(18))

3. Aliens Who Are Not Authorized To Work In The U.S.

The following temporary nonimmigrants are not authorized to work in the U.S.

NOTE: If the alien presents an I-94 showing employment authorization or an EAD, it
should always be verified by INS.

A-3 Spouse or child of principal A-3 alien B-1 Visitor for business (see section
C.2. above if the B-1 alien alleges employment as a personal or domestic servant or
employee of a foreign airline) B-2 Visitor for pleasure C-1 Alien in transit
through the U.S. C-2 Alien in transit to UN headquarters C-3 Attendant,
servant, other personal employee, spouse or child of principal C-3 alien D-1,
D-2 Crew member E-1 Spouse or child of principal E-1 alien who is not an
employee of the Coordination Council for North American Affairs E-2 Spouse or
child of principal E-2 alien F-2 Spouse or child of F-1 alien G-2, G-5 Spouse
or child of principal G-2 or G-5 alien H-4 Spouse or child of H-1A, H-1B, H-2A,
H-2B, or H-3 alien I Spouse or child of principal I alien L-2 Spouse or child
of L-1 alien M-2 Spouse or child of M-1 alien O-3 Spouse or child of O-1 or O-2
alien P-4 Spouse or child of P-1, P-2, or P-3 alien R-2 Spouse or child of R-1
alien TD Spouse or child of TN alien WB Visitor for business from a visa waiver
country WT Tourist from a visa waiver country
 
Old Jan 15th 2002, 8:38 pm
  #14  
Ben Johnson
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Posts: n/a
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Yes....absent someone at the SSA putting 2 and 2 together in taking the INS's
position on the K-3, that a K-3 holder is work authorized, incident to status, and
creating a SSA memo, such as for the K-1...that has to be accepted for now....

The text you quoted does not reference a K-3 at all. And for that matter, does not
have much of a bearing on the K-1 hoder either, since EM-000154 (reference in this
text) superceeds this text. In it, ...confirms my previous post.... "A nonimmigrant
alien in K-1 alien status is authorized to work based on that status and is no longer
required to show and employment authorization document (EAD) as proof of employment
authorization when applying for a Social Security Number (SSN) card."

Ben

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Adjustment
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section 245
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record of
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INA
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granted
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section
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section
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who is
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U.S.
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EAD,
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section
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Alien in
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Attendant,
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D-1,
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or
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Spouse or
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H-2A,
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child of
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O-2
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R-1
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waiver
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Old Jan 15th 2002, 9:37 pm
  #15  
Michael D. Young
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Ben Johnson wrote:

[usenetquote2]> > This does not include K-3/4, but they fall in same category as K-2[/usenetquote2]
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Hi All!

Well POMS has not been updated in a while. That's why the EM-00154 note is listed at
the top, but I was told last Thursday that K-3/4 will be treated the same as K-2's.
Now nothing is written in stone with anything the government says or does, but as of
01/15/02 05:35 EST, that's the way it is.

Yes K-1 doesn't need the EAD to get a work authorized SSN before the 90 days are up,
but the SSN card can't be used as a work authorization document. You need the EAD for
the I-9 after 90 days have passed, because the K-1 is expired.

Take care,

Mike
 

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