rhj

Hey all,

This is my first post here, so be gentle!!!

I have a potential opportunity with a position in either New York or San Francisco, with a multi-international company (no real time constraints). I moved to the UAE last April, but my wife found it difficult to get work due to the discriminatory manner in which the companies are allowed to operate, so I came back to the UK (I'm British) a couple of months later.

I'm not concerned about getting a visa, as the company have already advised that this won't be a problem (although understand that EVERY situation varies...).

I'm keen to hear of actual experiences, rather than hypothetical stories please...

I've been to NY on holiday a few times and loved it, the buzz of city life, the fact that whatever you want, whenever you want it, you can get, but of course, as with any city, it's not cheap to live in! Moving with a wife and 2 young children, where would YOU recommend living, where we could survive with one car (and use of public transport)? Preference would be a house, and needs to be 3 bed (for family who would be visiting a lot!), but apartments could work (on a low level!). Monthly budget of c.$3500, but really that's the upper limit... Would like to be close to the city, but far enough out to avoid any city taxes.

Same goes for San Fran, although we've never been there, but are very open to either option... The obvious difference I imagine would be the weather...

Childcare: our children would be 4 and 2 years old - what are the normal schooling ages, what are the average costs for (a really good!) Kindergarten, and are all of the schools for non-US Citizens private? If so, approximate fees? Are the Kindergartens open year round as in the UK, or are they like the UAE where they seem to only open term times?

What is the REAL cost of living for a family of 4, in both cities? Is there a lot to do as a family in our spare time?

Tax seems fairly complicated - presumably there are such things as Tax Accountants, who can ensure that everything owed is paid (and not a cent too much!!!!!!!)?

Sorry if this is all already covered in previous posts... It's a very varied post, so really appreciate your responses...

RHJ

Orangepants

My cousin and his girlfriend live in Brooklyn Heights, by the Clark Street subway station. She works on Wall Street and he is a real estate agent and make around $300K. They have 2 children 2 and 4. They rent a 4th floor(penthouse) 2 bed apt - 1100 sqft, newly refurbished for $3500. Their school fees in total for both are around $20K. They share a car with other friends for weekend trips (it is kept out in the burbs at the friends house) and he has a motorbike.

You need a lot of money to live in either city.!

Nutmegger

Is this a company by whom you have been employed for some time? If not and this is going to be a H-1 visa, your wife will be unable to work at all in the US, so childcare will become moot.

rpjs

Both NYC and SFO are very expensive places to live. I live in the NYC 'burbs and my brother lives in San Francisco, and I get the impression I have the cheaper cost-of-living!

If you want to avoid NYC city income tax then you'll need to look at Long Island (Nassau County, Suffolk at a pinch), Westchester County (where I live), Fairfield County (the south-western corner of Connecticut) or New Jersey. You could do worse than find out which commuter route(s) are near your employer's office at work back from there: if near Grand Central consider somewhere on Metro-North (Westchester or Fairfield Counties), if near Penn somewhere on the Long Island Railroad or New Jersey Transit, if in Lower Manhattan then somewhere on the PATH train or ferryable from the Jersey shore.

$3500 should get you something decent. In general you'll find the longer the commute, the lower the housing costs, although in the three years we've been here we've noticed futther afield costs catching up with nearer in. High property taxes in Westchester or Fairfield will be included in the rent, but as a rule if the taxes are lower the landlords just up the rent so it all comes out as more or less the same. As an example we rented a 2/3 bed, 1.5 bath 1000 sq ft apt in Tarrytown for $2100 a month and now own a 3/5 bed, 2 bath 1800 sq ft house in Sleepy Hollow which would probably rent for about $3000 a month incl taxes.

rhj

Wow, Brooklyn Heights looks lovely, and sounds perfect in terms of location etc.

$20k isn't a big deal for school fees - for (the equivalent of) Kindergarten in the UK we pay around $34k a year, so that's a great saving in itself.

From what I'm reading on various blogs/feeds, it looks like NY (not necessarily directly in the city) is on a par with the South East UK cost-wise...

Thanks for the insight..

notonuksoil

Another vote for Westchester NY, moved in 2003 when kids were young, one in 1st grade and one went to a private nursery back then.

Quality of life here far exceeds what we had in the UK as far as things to do for the kids. In school clubs, after school clubs and town oganised events are all fantastic.

Close proximity to NYC (30 minute commute to Grand Central)

Only downside now is the cost of renting, one of the reasons we finally decided to buy a house here last year.

A 3 bed house in our town your now looking at a minimum $4k per month rent, plus utilities. Two years ago we were paying $3250 for a 2500 sq ft house nothing even comes close to that looking at the current market here.

rpjs

You did say you wanted to avoid city taxes though: Brooklyn Heights is in the city so you'd be liable for city income tax there.

Overall I'd say somewhat higher.

rhj

This is precisely why I posted on here - I didn't realise that it was in the confines of the city, thanks for pointing that out. Out of interest, what rate is city tax charged at?

I meant in the sense that we currently pay the equivalent of $5100 a month just in rent and nursery/kindergarten...

christmasoompa

£20,000 a year for primary school?! I didn't think Eton did primary education.

rhj

Nursery, private, £1650 a month for 2 children. Including "free" hours from the Gov't and second child discount!

christmasoompa

Ah, I see. That's not the equivalent of kindergarten then, first year at primary school (Reception year) would be. I thought it was incredibly expensive for a school day!

As said above, if this isn't a company transfer, then your wife may not be able to work anyway, so that would save you quite a bit of money in childcare fees at least.

Best of luck with it.

rhj

Aah, my misunderstanding re kg..

So do I take it that my wife couldn't INDEPENDENTLY get a working visa then? She has offices in US, so "could" get transferred...

christmasoompa

If her company would be happy to sort that and pay for it (and she's of a high enough level to qualify for a L1), then yes, she could.

Yours isn't a company transfer then? Do you know what visa you'll be on? She may be able to work based on that, it'll just depend.

rhj

At present, I have no idea. The reason for the post was more to determine which would be the better (not necessarily cheaper) option: NY or San Francisco.

No responses re San Francisco yet, so either nobody recommends it or NY really is SOOO much better!!

christmasoompa

Maybe it's just me, but that seems to be putting the cart before the horse! Given that US visas are so tough to get, and that your visa would potentially limit your options in terms of being able to stay permanently and/or your wife being able to work, and that if you aren't going over on a company transfer then your most likely option would be a H1B (which would mean not even being able to start work until October 2016), etc, etc, I'd figure out the visa side of things first and then only if that's acceptable would I start looking at where to live.

Different strokes for different folks though, but it's worth double checking the visa side of things with the company's immigration lawyers before going too far down the route of researching life in the US just in case.

FWIW, I've only visited NYC and SF, but they're both great cities. Have you searched the forum for previous threads about them? Loads of good info around. You may find that the West coast peeps just haven't got going for the day yet, so may be along later to advise you better on life in SF and the cost of living there.

Best of luck.