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National Insurance

Old Jun 7th 2012, 1:20 am
  #31  
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Default Re: National Insurance

6th paragraph down...
http://www.jlaw.com/Briefs/israeliPensions.pdf
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Old Jun 7th 2012, 1:29 am
  #32  
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Default Re: National Insurance

Originally Posted by nearpost1 View Post
nun, I will double check right now, it's been a while since I found this out.
This has something that says that the portion of the pension that is due to voluntary payments is not subject to WEP. So when claiming SS you should make sure the SSA knows the exact nature of your payments.

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0200307290
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Old Jun 7th 2012, 1:37 am
  #33  
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Default Re: National Insurance

yes, I saw that nun. It confused me a little as they add the words"guarantee provision". It's as if they are saying voluntary contributions are viewed even more harshly. I'll keep looking. I'm not sure where those links went that I posted
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Old Jun 7th 2012, 2:02 am
  #34  
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Default Re: National Insurance

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...=634289&page=4

10th post down. LOL
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Old Jun 7th 2012, 11:36 am
  #35  
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Default Re: National Insurance

Originally Posted by nearpost1 View Post
Ha Ha, it's amazing what we forget. I can't find the link to the my quote, but the other two bits of information we found confirm that the portion of the UK state pension due to voluntary NI payments will result in a WEP. However, any UK pensions (private or government) that you paid into with wages you earned in the UK will contribute to a WEP.
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Old Jun 7th 2012, 8:44 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: National Insurance

I called the ssa this morning, they couldn't help. They have referred my question to my locall ss office. I will wait and see. For now though, I remain confident that the portion of ones U.K. state pension that results from voluntary contributions, will not be reduced by the WEP. The WEP will only be used against the portion that one accrued from actually working.


I did confirm that the WEP guarantee applies to all situations. That means that even if what I wrote above is wrong, your social security can be reduced by no more than 50% of the first $766, ($383).

That number applies to people who paid into social security for 20 years or less. Those who paid into social security for more than 20 years, enjoy a sliding scale all the way up to 30 years, when they suffer no reduction at all.

Last edited by nearpost1; Jun 7th 2012 at 8:52 pm.
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Old Jun 7th 2012, 8:56 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: National Insurance

Originally Posted by nun View Post
Ha Ha, it's amazing what we forget. I can't find the link to the my quote, but the other two bits of information we found confirm that the portion of the UK state pension due to voluntary NI payments will result in a WEP. However, any UK pensions (private or government) that you paid into with wages you earned in the UK will contribute to a WEP.
I presume you meant to type "in no wep"? Correct?
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Old Jun 7th 2012, 9:29 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: National Insurance

I got my pension statement from the UK yesterday.

I currently would receive 16/30 of the UK pension and I have 22 years if I want to voluntary pay the 14 years.

I am fortunate that I will make the 30 years social security in the USA, so I would not be subject to any deductions, other than normal taxes.
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Old Jun 7th 2012, 11:12 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: National Insurance

fsm, that is correct. I finally found an SSA document that is unequivocal.

Item 3, c

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0300605364

"Pension payments that include voluntary employee contributions, that are separate, and in addition to, the regular pension payment are not subject to WEP"


and in another SSA document:

item C, sec 1

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0300605372

"1. Eligibility
A foreign pension based on employment not covered by U.S. Social Security is treated as any other pension based on non-covered employment. However, WEP does not apply if the foreign pension is based on factors other than work, e.g., residence, voluntary contributions or financial need."

Last edited by nearpost1; Jun 7th 2012 at 11:16 pm.
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Old Jun 7th 2012, 11:21 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: National Insurance

Originally Posted by nearpost1 View Post
I presume you meant to type "in no wep"? Correct?
Yes you are correct, I miss typed, NO WEP on pensions due to voluntary NI contributions.
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Old Jun 7th 2012, 11:29 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: National Insurance

Phew! :-)
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Old Jun 8th 2012, 1:30 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: National Insurance

Originally Posted by Ray View Post
20 years ago I was told not to bother... but I did and it was not expensive
and now every month I get $730 paid into my US bank account
and even better my wife who never lived in the UK also get $430 a month

tell me where you can invest to get $1160 a month back

I say go for it ...

Curious how does your wife also get a pension?

Based on current prices it would cost me £1820 to pay to get the full 30 years, if I did that would that mean my wife would also get a pension?
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Old Jun 21st 2012, 10:26 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: National Insurance

I assume you have emigrated by now and hope all is well.

I would advise you to make Voluntary Class 3 Contributions to your UK Pension while living in the States until you have reached the current thirty year limit for a pension.

In the States you need thirty years of Sustainable Earnings to receive a full pension. If you do not have thirty years you will receive a reduced US pension and furthermore your British pension, based on work, will reduce your US Pension (Social Security) by as much as 60%.

For many this Social Security rule, Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP), is very unfair as not everybody can sustain the minimum threshold of earnings for every separate year for thirty years. If you can and you have a UK Pension, WEP will not apply to you.

There is a bill in the US Senate attempting to repeal this law, so I would urge anyone who would like to see some fairness in the system sign the petition linked below now. Also write to your rep and senators.

http://signon.org/sign/social-securi...mt&r_by=695993

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Old Jun 22nd 2012, 12:27 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: National Insurance

Originally Posted by mattlmt View Post
I assume you have emigrated by now and hope all is well.

I would advise you to make Voluntary Class 3 Contributions to your UK Pension while living in the States until you have reached the current thirty year limit for a pension.

In the States you need thirty years of Sustainable Earnings to receive a full pension. If you do not have thirty years you will receive a reduced US pension and furthermore your British pension, based on work, will reduce your US Pension (Social Security) by as much as 60%.
It's better to pay Class 2 Contributions if you qualify as they are less expensive. However, if you intend to return to the UK it might not be worth doing voluntary NI contributions if you think you'll get to 30 years of NI from working in the UK. Still at 130 GBP a year for Class 2 NI it's not much money.
In my case I'm 51 and have 4 years of UK wages NI and 26 years of voluntary Class 2. I plan to retire to the UK and won't need to work and pay anymore NI to get basic state pension. I have 17 year's of US SS contributions, so I will be WEPed. My 4 years of UK wage NI would at today's rates only reduce my US SS by $40 a month, however, I have worked for a US state for 9 years and will get a non-SS wage pension from them of $2000/month at 55 which means I will get maximum WEPed when I take SS. Still, projecting forward to age 66 using current SS and proposed UK pension amounts I should get $1400/month UK pension and $2000/month (after WEP) US SS.

The max amount of WEP is currently $383.50/month and WEP cannot be more than 50% of the pension you receive due to non-SS wages. Also voluntary NI does not factor into WEP calculations.

Last edited by nun; Jun 22nd 2012 at 12:45 pm.
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Old Jun 22nd 2012, 1:22 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: National Insurance

So having just turned 44, by the time I hit 62 I will have paid into the USA Social Security for 30 years, which would mean full US pension.

I then have a NPI private pension that I have not paid into in years, nor can I unless I am UK resident, it does keep growing in value and will get paid when 65 or thereabouts.

My 401K that I have been paying into for 13 or so years and will keep doing so (goes up and down like a roller coaster)

Private US work pension (Fully vested in that)

16/30 of UK pension, I then have 22 years to make the 14 years voluntary payments.

So if my reading of everything is correct if I may ke contributions, I would when I retire receive.

Full US Pension
US work pension
401K
Full UK pension
NPI pension

If I pass before retirement, would my American wife have any entitlement to my UK pension? (NPI, i have to place it trust or mention it in my will)
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