ldyinlv

probably true...

mmhendrie

I was born in Mtarfa also, small world eh! my dad was a pilot on Canberra's. We left Malta in '79, so i Have no memories of it, great place for a holiday though. Fancy msging me your dads name and I'll ask my dad if they knew each other?

-Matt

Bob

Not read much of the thread then?

And sure, British, doesn't help much to the OP if asking about the ability to pass on citizenship.

ldyinlv

I guess I will go away with my tail between my legs....

mmhendrie

ok - thanks again everyone - my birth registration application lands at the embassy on tuesday, so no need to sweat the details anymore, lets see what they say when they see my app coupled with military birth certificate from Malta!!!

*fingers crossed*

thx,
Matt

mmhendrie

folks - just heard back from the consulat so thought i'd provide an update.

The chap who emailed me addressed my specific application - he quoted law that I'm British by descent unless my father was actively serving during a posting in Malta at the time of my birth - then i'm British "other then by descent" - obviously my father was actively serving in Malta when I was born, so this is the outcome I was hoping for.

However - they do want proof of that, and have requested original birth certificates of my father, his original marriage certificate, and his original RAF posting documents. I've spoken to my dad (who lives in the UK), and he has the docs they need, but is extremely reluctant to have to send all these originals across the atlantic, aside from the obvious legal value, all of these are originals and have significant sentimental value beyond anything a later certified copy would ever have.

I'm going to write the chap at the consulat who contacted me, and see if I have any alternatives.....

-Matt

Ozzidoc

Surprisingly, the Consulate in LA accepted a scanned & emailed copy of my naturalisation cert, so maybe this could be an option?

kins

Has he seen your birth certificate? Just wondering if it's the same form as mine - it has the Command (Near East Air Force), place of birth (Royal Naval Hospital Malta), Rank or Occupation of Father (mine has Flight Lieutenant, his number, and Royal Air Force), and the signature of the officer registering the birth including his name and rank.

Seems like that ought to be enough to prove he was serving abroad at the time?

mmhendrie

yes - I sent in my original birth certificate, and it sounds like you and I have pretty much the same thing. Dad’s rank, air force number, etc. He said he needed documented evidence that my father was actually on a posting in Malta at the time of my birth. The certificate proves he was in the Air Force, and at the time, his residence was in Malta - but does not prove he was serving a posting in Malta at the time. Technicalities...

Well, in the hope of giving them enough good information immediately, and convincing them it was therefore genuine, I had my dad do some high quality scans of his birth cert., marriage cert. and his acceptance letter for the Air Force. I’ve just heard back (hats off to the Embassy guy on his quick responses..) - he confirmed those are exactly the docs he needs, but absolutely must have the originals. He did provide an alternative of making an appointment with a London office that my dad can take the documents to, and they would authenticate them. Sadly my dad lives in York, so not really a “park and ride” trip, but hey, I guess I’m proving citizenship here, not buying a movie ticket – there have to be rules. Must say, although a little frustrated with the extent of documentation I need to provide, I am quite pleased with the consulate taking the time to review and directly address and clarify the issues with me – night and day from my dealings with US immigration.

gavspen

I understand your Dad's concern about sending these documents to some third party, but if he's willing to send them to you via, say, FedEx, or some other service that provides tracking, and with it, hopefully, greater protection against loss, would the embassy here accept what's called a "Certified true copy" (or words to that effect)?

You appear before a notary (someone at your bank is probably one) with the original and the copy, and they stamp it, and put their seal on it, and all that good stuff. It's worked for me in certain cases, although not, I confess, with anything as sensitive as a birth certificate. It's worth asking though.

Good luck

JAJ

If your birth certificate is a British military birth certificate rather than a standard British consular birth certificate, then I would think it absolutely does prove that your father was "serving a posting in Malta" rather than being there on holiday (only alternative scenario).

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governme...cord/DG_175698



And what would happen, one wonders, if your father was deceased or estranged, or the documents were lost or destroyed?

Probably you'd have to apply for a Right of Abode stamp in your son's US passport, using the documentation available, which has a statutory basis and a formal right of appeal in case of refusal.

Or tell them to go and make their own checks with the RAF, which they ought to be capable or doing.

In the meantime, in your situation, probably the easiest solution is for your father to go to London with the original documents. Try to avoid anything that involves sending them into the Embassy, as there's always the possibility they could be lost there.

Your post suggests that you're getting a British consular birth certificate for your child, which is the essential step - re-doing this process in 20 years could be very difficult and passports are not valid for life.

mmhendrie

thanks - I was of the feeling also that my birth certificate sufficiently indicated the posting abroad military scenario, and I did point that out to my consulate contact - however, he replied and said it was not and that I would need originals of my dads documents. The consulate chap's been very pleasant to deal with and I don't think he's "being difficult". More so, I think it's probably connected with the size/accuracy/ authentication of the documents themselves. Our military forces abroad are very small now, but obviously, that’s not always been the case – and we had our thumbs in pies all over the place. I’m guessing some places kept better records and some places lost more then they kept! Some probably had good quality records, and some look like they were written on a napkin! I’m guessing that once you have to check the “born abroad” box, you basically fall into the “we have to cover our bases” bin, and that the rules were made to reasonably safe guard against the worst record keeping situations, and thus require the additional documentation. Or maybe I’m being too kind?! Whilst my birth certificate might in itself contain enough evidence, I’m probably at a level that the extra docs are an absolute requirement. Undoubtedly, British citizenship is a big prize, and I’m sure there are many devious folks out there who’d try all sorts to secure it, by fair means, or foul. At the end of the day, its some annoyance, and hassle, but, for such a big prize, that’s okay.

It did occur to me you’re other point though – my dad is reluctant to mail his docs, but I am close to him, he loves my son to death, and he’ll do what he needs to do to make this happen. However, I know that wouldn’t be the case for everyone, and wonder how tough it could get if you were estranged from your father etc. It’d sure be nice if the embassy/consulate could just go through the defense attaché right there in DC and check my dad’s background, but hey, after going through the good ol’INS for my US immigration, this stuff isn’t so bad.

JAJ

You still haven't told us whether you have a standard British consular birth certificate, or one issued through the military authorities, but in the latter case you might want to ask why this officer is rejecting the authenticity of a British issued document?

It's possible to "be difficult" even if it's done politely.


So why doesn't your father take a day trip to London, visit the Foreign Office, etc (to make a virtue out of a necessity).

By the way, you are probably also a Maltese citizen. Anyone born in Malta between 21 Sept 1964 and 30 June 1989 automatically became a Maltese citizen at birth. There was an exception for children of diplomats, but usually (if UK experience is anything to go by), visiting forces did not normally have diplomatic immunity.

Before the year 2000 Malta had strict rules forbidding dual citizenship beyond age 19, and hence (if you acquired Maltese citizenship by birth) you would have lost it automatically on your 19th birthday because you were also a British citizen. However, on 10 February 2000, you would (normally) have been re-conferred with Maltese citizenship, again automatically. And if you're Maltese, then your son is probably Maltese by descent.

mmhendrie

sorry - thought I'd discussed the specifics on my birth certificate earlier in the thread - it was issued through the British military, "Mediterranean Command" is the exact designation.

I don't think he's rejected the authenticity, he quoted the military exception to the rule of British By Descent, and then stated that he is required to collect those documents. There's no time crunch for us now, so we'll do whatever is easiest for my dad, there's every chance he will be in the States before he makes it down to London.

Not sure about the Maltese citizen thing - never looked into it - unsure if being born in a Brit military hospital disqualifies me or not. I thought at one point Malta had mandatory military service though, so perhaps I should avoid a trip back!!

In amongst all the research into this, I ran into an article claiming Obama was British at birth, through his Kenyan father...as Kenya was a colony at the time of Obama's birth, and the 1948 nationality act made citizens of the colonies citizens of the UK. Although if he was a British citizen, he would have lost it just 2yrs later when Kenya gained its independance. Interesting thought though - Prime Minister Obama anyone?

JAJ

Required by whom?

As long as it's established that your father was serving in the military outside the UK when you were born - which your birth certificate appears to do, as far as I am aware military certificates were only issued to serving military - then there is absolutely no basis for this officer to demand additional documentation of his military service.

In other words, either he is rejecting the authenticity of your British documentation or acting illegally.


But are you near a consulate office that allows you to bring the documents in person? Once again - don't mail them.

Once again - 90%+ certain you're Maltese unless for some reason your father had diplomatic immunity ... by the same token, lots of people born to US military personnel in Britain prior to 1983 are British citizens by birth.

If it turns out you're Maltese, then this is automatic unless you go to the Maltese Embassy to renounce it. As far as I am aware, Malta does not have military service but you may want to look more closely at this:
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Acquir...te_Citizenship

It does appear that Mr Obama may have acquired Citizenship of the UK & Colonies (by descent) when he was born, as his father was from the Kenya Colony. At Kenya independence in December 1963 he would have become a Kenyan citizen, and then lost Kenyan citizenship at some point between age 21 and 23 due to his also holding US citizenship.