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Is my Daughter British?

Is my Daughter British?

Old Apr 5th 2011, 12:56 am
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Exclamation Is my Daughter British?

I know this topic may have been exhausted already but no one answered this particular question. I wanted to register my 8 years old daughter as British and this is my particulars:

I am not and never married to her mum.
She was born here in America.
I am a full British citizen born in Liverpool in 1979
and have a British and U.S passport
Have been settle here in America since 1998.
I am on my daughters birth certificate
my EX has given me permission.

Base on the "legitimation and domicile" thing mentioned earlier, can i register as British or apply for a passport for her? Anyone?
Originally Posted by BritishToTheEnd View Post
although me and children mother ARE married according to the state, even IF we were not married my children would still be eligible for British citizenship according to regulations.

The http://www.ips.gov.uk Web site provides guidance on this matter in a document that describes the Process for determining nationality for those born before 01.07.2006 where their parents were not married. The document is called: LEGITIMATION AND DOMICILE and is found at the following link:

http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/files/ips/live/assets/documents/Legitimation_and_Domicile_TO_PUBLISH.pdf


(In summary it states)

“Many countries no longer distinguish between legitimate and illegitimate births. Where they do not distinguish, a child will be legitimate even if the parents are not married”.

(Then it goes on to say)

“In UK law, when considering questions of legitimacy, we look at the law of the place where the father was domiciled at the time of the child’s birth. If that law treats a child as legitimate, then UK law will likewise recognise that status [Hashmi v Hashmi (1972)]”.

(and)

“Therefore, if there is no concept of illegitimacy according to the law of the place of the father's domicile at the time of the child's birth, the child born outside a marriage will be considered legitimate in UK law irrespective of whether the child's parents subsequently marry. Such a child will have a claim to British Citizenship”.

(it gives the example)

Example: Child born outside the UK before 1 July 2006
Parents not married
Claim through father
Father’s domicile Jamaica
As Jamaica has no concept of illegitimacy, the child has a claim under section 1(1)(b) BNA 81


(Then it provides a table of different country and how the rule applies – For the U.S it says

Annex A - Legitimation laws in other parts of the world

United states


Is there any distinction between legitimate and illegitimate birth?
No distinction between children born in or outside a marriage

Would a child be legitimated by subsequent marriage of the parents?
Child is legitimate whether the parents are married or not


end

So I if I have understood this all correctly my children are British citizens regardless of whether I am married to their mother or not (Which I am) because at the time of birth I was domiciled in the U.S and the applicable U.S legislation make no distinction between legitimate and illegitimate. Is this reasoning enough to continue with my application?


Am i correct in my assertion? Veteran Expats?

Last edited by meauxna; Apr 5th 2011 at 12:59 am.
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Old Apr 5th 2011, 2:30 am
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Default Re: Is my Daughter British?

Yes.
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Old Apr 5th 2011, 2:34 am
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Default Re: Is my Daughter British?

Don't over complicate it. Yes.
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Old Apr 5th 2011, 2:47 am
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Default Re: Is my Daughter British?

Originally Posted by steve100100 View Post
Don't over complicate it. Yes.
lol - lmao... thanks for the straight talk...
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Old Apr 7th 2011, 8:19 pm
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Default Re: Is my Daughter British?

Originally Posted by steve100100 View Post
Don't over complicate it. Yes.
I submitted my children application with the wrong marriage certificate, i submitted the one i was given at the church. I have since ordered my state marriage certificate from the Manhattan clerks office but they said it would take 8 weeks to process (there is not way to fast track). So in response i sent a detailed letter to Washington embassy for the evaluator to read about what the opening post mentioned. I politely explained that it didn't make a difference if i was married or not, quoting the appropriate legislation, regulations and examples from government sources explaining that my children's application could be processed on the basis of my domicile at the time of all their birth.

Nevertheless I doubt they will ever contact me to confirm that they even received my letter, let alone agree or disagree. They didn't even process my youngest daughters passport who is born after 2006. They just want the marriage certificate full stop and ignore regulations. Although, like i said, i have ordered my "official" marriage cert, by the time it arrives our current home will be vacated, i will be in England.

I don't understand why they require marriage certificates for people settled (domiciled) in the U.S. It does not matter, HERE, if a couple are married or not, the children are legitimate either way and thus a father is eligible to pass on his British citizenship (if he is a full blood citizen)... i.e if you are on the birth certificate in America, then you are the father! All that should remain is proving that you were domiciled in the U.S. at the time of birth, an easy task.

Unfortunately applicants are at the mercy of any one particular evaluator and the is no way to redress. I guess a person has to cut their loses and apply again paying another $416 (in my case) and then again and then again, until it reaches an evaluator that is following Regulations and not his personal opinion.

I would contact DEAN but i think i have bothered him enough, what a colossal waste of money.
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Old Apr 7th 2011, 10:17 pm
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Default Re: Is my Daughter British?

Your ex has given you permission to what?

And which ex? The girlfriend or the wife?
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Old Apr 7th 2011, 10:55 pm
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Default Re: Is my Daughter British?

Originally Posted by Rete View Post
Your ex has given you permission to what?

And which ex? The girlfriend or the wife?
My Ex-GIRLFRIEND (daughters mother), who is American, gave me permission to get a U.K passport for my daughter to make her a dual citizen
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Old Apr 7th 2011, 11:15 pm
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Default Re: Is my Daughter British?

When you move make sure to put the change of address thing in at the Post office, you never know you may just get the stuff in the mail.
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Old Apr 7th 2011, 11:28 pm
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Default Re: Is my Daughter British?

Originally Posted by Frankherbert View Post
My Ex-GIRLFRIEND (daughters mother), who is American, gave me permission to get a U.K passport for my daughter to make her a dual citizen
She already was a duel citizen, passport doesn't make one a citizen, it is a benefit of being one though.
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Old Apr 7th 2011, 11:35 pm
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Default Re: Is my Daughter British?

Originally Posted by Bob View Post
She already was a duel citizen, passport doesn't make one a citizen, it is a benefit of being one though.

sounds like their giving "BritishToTheEnd" a hard time


Originally Posted by BritishToTheEnd View Post
I submitted my children application with the wrong marriage certificate, i submitted the one i was given at the church. I have since ordered my state marriage certificate from the Manhattan clerks office but they said it would take 8 weeks to process (there is not way to fast track). So in response i sent a detailed letter to Washington embassy for the evaluator to read about what the opening post mentioned. I politely explained that it didn't make a difference if i was married or not, quoting the appropriate legislation, regulations and examples from government sources explaining that my children's application could be processed on the basis of my domicile at the time of all their birth.

Nevertheless I doubt they will ever contact me to confirm that they even received my letter, let alone agree or disagree. They didn't even process my youngest daughters passport who is born after 2006. They just want the marriage certificate full stop and ignore regulations. Although, like i said, i have ordered my "official" marriage cert, by the time it arrives our current home will be vacated, i will be in England.

I don't understand why they require marriage certificates for people settled (domiciled) in the U.S. It does not matter, HERE, if a couple are married or not, the children are legitimate either way and thus a father is eligible to pass on his British citizenship (if he is a full blood citizen)... i.e if you are on the birth certificate in America, then you are the father! All that should remain is proving that you were domiciled in the U.S. at the time of birth, an easy task.

Unfortunately applicants are at the mercy of any one particular evaluator and the is no way to redress. I guess a person has to cut their loses and apply again paying another $416 (in my case) and then again and then again, until it reaches an evaluator that is following Regulations and not his personal opinion.

I would contact DEAN but i think i have bothered him enough, what a colossal waste of money.

Last edited by Frankherbert; Apr 7th 2011 at 11:40 pm.
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Old Apr 8th 2011, 5:25 pm
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Default Re: Is my Daughter British?

Originally Posted by BritishToTheEnd View Post
I submitted my children application with the wrong marriage certificate, i submitted the one i was given at the church. I have since ordered my state marriage certificate from the Manhattan clerks office but they said it would take 8 weeks to process (there is not way to fast track). So in response i sent a detailed letter to Washington embassy for the evaluator to read about what the opening post mentioned. I politely explained that it didn't make a difference if i was married or not, quoting the appropriate legislation, regulations and examples from government sources explaining that my children's application could be processed on the basis of my domicile at the time of all their birth.

Nevertheless I doubt they will ever contact me to confirm that they even received my letter, let alone agree or disagree. They didn't even process my youngest daughters passport who is born after 2006.
For the one born after 2006, they should process it and if they don't you should be complaining to the Foreign Office Nationality and Consular Registration Division in London. If they have a problem understanding the law you should apply on form NS for a Home Office Certificate of Status:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...nationality/ns


For the child born before 1 July 2006, I would not rely on the interpretations you have been given and you should understand that even if your daughter is granted a British passport, the basis of such a passport could be questioned later on. People have been erroneously granted British passports - and it doesn't make them British.

For this child, it would be a lot safer to go through the Home Office registration process, which has to be done before age 18.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...britishfather/
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Old Apr 8th 2011, 5:27 pm
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Default Re: Is my Daughter British?

Originally Posted by Frankherbert View Post
I know this topic may have been exhausted already but no one answered this particular question. I wanted to register my 8 years old daughter as British and this is my particulars:

I am not and never married to her mum.
She was born here in America.
I am a full British citizen born in Liverpool in 1979
and have a British and U.S passport
Have been settle here in America since 1998.
I am on my daughters birth certificate
my EX has given me permission.

Base on the "legitimation and domicile" thing mentioned earlier, can i register as British or apply for a passport for her? Anyone?

I wouldn't try to rely on "legitmation and domicile". You would have to prove you lost your UK domicile before your daughter was born and then it does rely on some (British) interpretations of US law on legitimacy which might some day be viewed as "less than correct".

There is a much simpler and more secure option available, registration with the Home Office:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...britishfather/

Has to be done before age 18. No flexibility if deadline missed.
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