Tirytory

If you take education out of it.... Bright kids will do well regardless.... Where would they rather live? Where would you rather live? I think at this age I would be focusing on their emotional and social well being. Do you really want to teach your children to flip between countries because of government changes that happen anywhere? It seems to me you would be growing kids without roots, without a solid idea of home.

You made your choice to move home, I'm sure you were aware of university costs at the time but you still chose the UK. Also an international move is hugely expensive anyway! Personally I think you should stick where you are FOR THEM and just bitch about the education system whenever possible. It's just the curse of the expat hitting you- don't lay that on them too.

NiHao

I honestly just can not see how this move would be worth it unless you all want to move to the US for other reasons? Even if you love living in the US and hate living in the UK (which does not appear to be the case) moving during their teenage years is so disruptive, if it was me I'd have to have a lot of really compelling reasons to do it.

I just think your fears about the changes to the UK GCSE and A'level system are completely out of proportion to what the actual reality will be. The UK education system will not be destroyed by this, a small percentage of children will end up with better results because they thrive in exam settings and a small percentage, who suffer from extreme exam anxiety or are not good at swotting for exams, will do worse but the vast majority of children will do just fine.

What do your children's teachers say? Are they advising anyone who can flee the country to do so before their children's educations are ruined?

The other reason you gave was that your children can go to university for free in the US but as others have pointed out the fees for the UK are not up front and only have to be paid back if they go onto earn high enough salaries. In the UK they would only take 3 years to get degrees in the US they would need 4 years which would in itself incur cost.

Something else to bear in mind is that if you move them now and things go as you are hoping and they cope with the change and love and thrive in the US education system then they will most likely want to stay in the US. You may find yourself down the road feeling homesick for the UK but with your children and grandchildren very firmly settled in the US. If the opposite happens and they want to return to the UK when they are adults then surely they would have been better off getting an imperfect British education than an imperfect American one?

If you move back to the US their HS education and free college doesn't come in a vacuum, it comes with a life in the US and all that encompasses. Now for some people that is a pro and for others that is a con, only you and your children know which it is for you but the fact that you moved back to the UK seems to suggest that at the very least it isn't all pro for you?

Which country do your children imagine themselves living in as adults? Obviously, we all know plans change but if they see themselves as adults living in the US then they would be better off moving and going through the US education system but if they imagine themselves living in the UK they'd be better off finishing their education there.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

p.s I read the article you linked to and I noticed that the Union "also called for a study into the impact on children's learning of the traditional long summer holiday" - with my children about to break up for their annual 10 week summer break I wonder what they'd make of that. I much prefer the UK system of school breaks throughout the year and a shorter summer break.

NatashaB

NiHao makes a good point about how a UK degree would be funded. I know it's changed a lot in the last few years and fees have increased but I do still think the UK student loan system is a lot fairer than the American one. I see your concerns about the UK exam changes, but I'm not sure that it warrants moving continents. The teachers will manage and the children will adapt. Could you look at the international baccalaureate - i think kids can do this in place of A levels - and is recognised in both countries?

MarylandNed

I'd just like to say that Michael Gove is a complete tosser. He represents much of what is wrong with the UK.

retzie

Some excellent posts in this thread (NiHao and Tirytory in particular). There is an element of fudge in all 'college preparation' options. From my point of view as a college professor, the main problem is people getting through who probably shouldn't due to family/school 'shepherding', who then promptly return to mediocrity when left to their own devices. Those who have something to offer but struggle with whatever the assessment system values generally find a way through in the end.

Is your concern that they will not be competitive in university selection, or that they will not learn? As has been mentioned, the former is relative to their peers and since the change will affect the entire country, I don't think it's worth panicking over. As to whether they will learn: I think this comes down to their environment. If you and the school push them for grades no matter what, that is where their focus will lie. If you emphasise the importance of building an understanding of material and concepts, then they will likely be more well-rounded and self-sustaining come university.

Overall, I think any gains made in moving to a more palatable system will be erased by the disruption of the move. Also, if you move on the basis of high school performance, that's an awful lot of pressure to put on them to perform at said high school...

As for college costs: won't the 'free' California option be open to them regardless of where they complete high school?

ETA: What is it they are hoping to study at university? If it's anything science-related, they might as well get used to exam-only assessment now.

md95065

I tend to think that, with the very best of intentions, and because the choice of moving back to the U.S. is a viable possibility, the OP is really trying to over optimize for a future that cannot be accurately predicted.

The very fact that she is having difficulty in making the decision is an indication that there is no obvious "right" answer and, in this particular case that also means that neither option is "wrong".

In this case I suspect that the differences between individual schools and even individual teachers will make more of a difference to her children than the differences between the "systems" in the California or the UK. What will make a bigger difference is which environment they will feel most comfortable in.

Pulaski

A fair point, but the OP's children are established in one school system and she is contemplating uprooting them and moving them to a school system that is not unquestionably better.

md95065

Agreed - and, for me, that would certainly tip the balance in favo(u)r of leaving well alone and staying in the UK.

steveq

If teachers are against something, its usually a good idea. Coursework was rife with cheating. Those of us who passed O levels did the exams and went home, there was none of the continuous pressure that coursework puts everyone under. Reality is, that exams make sure that core material you NEED in your head to succeed really is there - I've seen it in my sons, they often haven't a clue how to tackle a problem, because the equations and formulae they need to know instinctively, so they rise up in front of your eyes as you see the problem, aren't there - because you can always look it up in the crib sheet , or on-line, right ?

Exam pressure is JUST like real-life, when you have deadlines to meet.

Pulaski

This! ..... I had 50% course work on one of my O'levels, and I hated it, it sucked up so much time. I would much sooner have had an extra exam and be over and done with it.

Pulaski

I hear he doesn't think much of you either!

BEVS

I agree with this 100%.

Course work is school work by any other name. You learn through what is directly taught and by the school work set to underpin that teaching .
Exams, whether practical or academic, are to show to what standard & degree you have taken in what you have been taught.

I do not buy into this idea that examination sets kids up to fail. It does not.
Emphasis on 'coursework' which is project work by any other name, does set up kids to underachieve when they step into an adult working environment and has done society no good at all.

I'll get off the soapbox now .

bromleygirl

I have to say re the exams issue, I am in total disagreement hence part of my dilemma in the first place. Having a system in which both coursework and end of course exams are used to assess students actually motivates and keeps kids on track to the end. 100% exam only goes to prove a capacity for memorizing the material not actually putting it into practice as you would do in coursework which yes does involve project/collaborative work and demonstrates a students understanding of the material. How often in our work lives do we actually sit an exam really? and no, coursework does not set up kids to underachieve - it actually helps develop skills that everyone needs in order to collaborate and work with others and that is how society works - do we really all work on our own with no communication or collaboration? I think not.

What about those children who just do not do well in exams or who have special needs - is it really fair to subject them to 100% based exams?

Assessment of what a child has learned should be a combination of exam and coursework - it should not be a case of do or die on the day of. No wonder there has been a dramatic increase in exam stress.

bromleygirl

Thank you everyone for your replies - I think the above basically summarises where I am it and my need to weigh what I do know and try and anticipate the various scenarios that could happen. I'm trying to look ahead to the future and if any of you have not already guessed, I am on my own making this decision so the financial aspect is always a big consideration for me. My daughter would like to become an Architect and my son is looking at doing Engineering. With that said, the American system does not require kids to specialise as early as the English system does which allows them to mature more and decide what they really want to do with their lives.

jjmb

Or flounder about for 2 yrs when they have to decide their major or not as in the case of my eldest daughter who swung from one bio science field to another. Ended up with way too many credits, a major and several minors. She works in a field she enjoys but she is just one of those people who doesn't really know what she wants to do. At the moment her current sideline is photography, here is her blog - Elisabeth May Photography.

Alternatively, you have the situation where my youngest daughter wanted to do one thing but at the end of year 2 had to pass a panel to do the senior years. 90 kids for 15 places. Guess what she came in 16th! So it was panic stations at that point, restart a major as other than the core subjects, most of the credits wouldn't transfer over. In the end, she did general degree as she really didn't fancy doing additional year or so to additional credits, at that time as she really didn't know what she wanted to do. To be honest, all she wanted to was leave, so graduating in the allotted 4 yrs became the goal. Now after several years of being in the real world, she has some idea of what she wants to do and is studying at the local community college.

Basically all school systems have their flaws and politicans have been interfering all the time they have been around. If a child is going to be successful in life, they will achieve what they want regardless of the circumstances. We, as parents, can stand by as they achieve or screw up (like my son) and believe in them.
I went to one of those so called "sink" schools in London and despite that label a lot of us when on to something useful in life. Equally after I completed that school (only went to 5th yr and only offered CSE's , who remembers them) I went to one of the top grammar schools in London as my brainy but dumb sister had got in that year. Again, a lot of us went on to something with our lives and others crashed and burned.
You can never tell how life is going to turn out.
Having experienced moving with teenagers, I would never do that again unless I had to.