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Move to New York or Sydney?

Move to New York or Sydney?

Old Jan 8th 2018, 10:41 pm
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Default Move to New York or Sydney?

Hi there,
So I have been offered a job both in Sydney and New York and I am torn which one to select. Both roughly undertaking the same role, but the Sydney role is offering more money.

I have never been to Sydney but have been to Melbourne and loved it. I have been to New York and enjoyed it as well. People often say that New York has more buzz and should live there at least once. I have been told that Sydney is quite dull in comparison to New York and London, where I currently live. However, I am not sure if in the long term I would want to live in New York as it does possibly have a shelf life and think maybe Sydney would be a better choice if considering future planning. I am 30 years of age and single so don’t really have any commitments. Although the Sydney job is offering more money, sometimes maybe its not about the money but about the experience.

I was wondering if anyone has any pearls of wisdom or if anyone has lived in both and which they preferred taking into account the wider Australian and American culture as well. I have been travelling a bit and think in general I found myself to be more in tune with Australian humour and sociability, but that is a generalisation and the people you meet travelling probably shouldn’t be used a barometer of the wider population.

I think I have over thought the options and I can’t even tell what my gut is telling me.

I know I should probably go and visit Sydney first but I don’t at this point have the funds or the time, also it would be interesting to find out other people’s opinion. Friends and family are split on the decision and is mostly based on weather and distance from UK.

Thank you x

P.S wasn’t sure which forum to put this on so have posted on both US and OZ forums as I assume people don’t tend to visit both.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 7:59 am
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

Distance from the UK could be a big consideration. From NYC, it'd be easy to visit the UK several times a year (if you wished.) Also, being an easier and cheaper flight, it doesn't have to eat into vacation allowance too badly, as you could even go for a long weekend.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 8:18 am
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

Hi, and welcome to BE.

For the US job offer, what's the potential salary and what visa will you be on? Those two things may make a big difference in a comfortable life in NYC versus an uncomfortable one.

If you can give people a bit more info about the job offers then I'm sure they'll be able to advise which city may give you a better life, we do have some forum members who've lived in both I believe.

Best of luck.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 10:46 am
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

Sydney is 1/4 the size of New York City and less than 1/2 the size of London. That is why it's perceived as dull. Because compared to either, it is. New York and London are not peer cities of Sydney, based on population size and corporate presence. Atlanta, Toronto and Frankfurt are Sydney's peer cities.

If your choice was Atlanta/Toronto/Frankfurt or New York, what would your answer be?

You will have far more options for career development in New York than in Sydney. Australians go to America to develop their careers. Americans don't go to Australia to develop theirs.

Now, reflect a bit on why that is.

Australia is a small market in a remote part of the world. There are almost as many people in New York City as there are in the entirety of Australia, and the flight just from Sydney to Jakarta is as long as the flight from New York to London.

It does punch way above its weight in terms of universities, but there are still no Harvard's or Oxford's here. The young adults who aspire to that, leave.

This is said as someone who mostly grew up in one country and now lives in the other. There are career paths and jobs where Australia would be a far better option than the US - but if yours was one of them, you wouldn't be comparing as work sites New York vs Sydney.

There isn't a doubt in my mind that New York will be better for your career, from a development and networking perspective. Sydney will be better if you want "hey, look at me, I'm Down Under!" selfies to plaster all over Instagram.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 11:27 am
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

It all depends on the industry, whether Sydney would be better than New York for you. For most professional careers the United States wins out.

Construction jobs in Australia are miles better than construction jobs in the United States for example. Surf instructors probably do a lot better too :P

In New York you’ll have to ride the disgustingly dirty subway everyday. In Sydney you go to the beach after work go to the blue mountains on weekends. If you like to leave the city on weekends often, New Jersey is a alright option too. Sydney is a better lifestyle choice than New York if you are able to get paid the same.

People are generally happier in Australia. More equal society, higher minimum wage, more benefits etc. The cost of home ownership (bubble) is one of the major downsides to Australia right now.

I do think the lifestyle in Australia is superior, although this is subjective.

Last edited by britinusa777777755; Jan 9th 2018 at 11:38 am.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 11:41 am
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

Hi,
Thank you for the above replies.

Just to give life a background, the role is actually in the construction field, albeit in a more white collar / office role. I would be on an E2 visa in New York. Salary is $85k (USD) in New York and $105k (USD) in Sydney.

I am trying to consider the lifestyle and social aspect as truth be told I am quietly ambitious but my life outside of work is a lot more important to me.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 11:46 am
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

Originally Posted by britinusa777777755 View Post

Construction jobs in Australia are miles better than construction jobs in the United States for example.
Be interested to hear what that is based on - very tough over here working in 40 degree plus heat, and not as easy to get a visa or a job as a tradie as it used to be.

Originally Posted by britinusa777777755 View Post
In New York you’ll have to ride the disgustingly dirty subway everyday. In Sydney you go to the beach after work go to the blue mountains on weekends. If you like to leave the city on weekends often, New Jersey is a alright option too. Sydney is a better lifestyle choice than New York if you are able to get paid the same.
I think you will find there is only a small minority of people going to the beach after work! Many work long hours, many love nowhere near the beach, and many more find its dark before they get out of the office.



Originally Posted by britinusa777777755 View Post
People are generally happier in Australia.


Don't base your opinion of life in Australia on the stereotypes!

Originally Posted by britinusa777777755 View Post
I do think the lifestyle in Australia is superior, although this is subjective.
Can I ask how long you have actually lived here for?
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 11:56 am
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

Originally Posted by the pea View Post
Hi,
Thank you for the above replies.

Just to give life a background, the role is actually in the construction field, albeit in a more white collar / office role. I would be on an E2 visa in New York. Salary is $85k (USD) in New York and $105k (USD) in Sydney.

I am trying to consider the lifestyle and social aspect as truth be told I am quietly ambitious but my life outside of work is a lot more important to me.
It’s a no brainer if you work in construction. Australia is a mostly empty but growing country which has so much potential. It’s vast coastline is largely undeveloped.

The country has less than 25 million people but grows its population at an alarming rate. Everyone needs housing and companies need office space.

New York City is a sanctuary city for illegal immigrants. Spanish is a good skill to have when working in the construction industry here. Australia by comparison has a very tough immigration policy that is largely consistent across the country.

Do you have a family? Sydney is far more family friendly than NYC it’s laughable how unlivable NYC is for families, that aren’t millionaires. My wife and I make 150K combined here and we are holding off having kids until we leave NYC.....

Last edited by britinusa777777755; Jan 9th 2018 at 12:12 pm.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 12:23 pm
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

Originally Posted by britinusa777777755 View Post
It’s a no brainer if you work in construction. Australia is a mostly empty but growing country which has so much potential. It’s vast coastline is largely undeveloped.

The country has less than 25 million people but grows its population at an alarming rate. Everyone needs housing and companies need office space.

New York City is a sanctuary city for illegal immigrants. Spanish is a good skill to have when working in the construction industry here. Australia by comparison has a very tough immigration policy that is largely consistent across the country.

Do you have a family? Sydney is far more family friendly than NYC it’s laughable how unlivable NYC is for families that aren’t millionaires. My wife and I make 150K combined here and we are holding off having kids until we leave NYC.....
I concur with Pollyanna in that you don't seem to understand Australia very well, and I would also like to know how long you were here.

The reason Sydney and Melbourne real estate prices skyrocketed is because nobody wants to move to all that undeveloped coast line. This is one of the most urbanised countries in the world. Australians - especially young ones - view country towns as poison. They don't and won't go Outback or regional, and this has been a constant theme for all of Federation. Viewing all that coast and interior "empty" as something just waiting to be developed and built up, is to not understand Australia and its growth patterns at all.

If you are whinging about New York being a sanctuary city for illegal migrants, good gosh, what in the world do you think Sydney and Melbourne are?

Nor do I know anyone who goes to the beach after work de rigeur, including in small coastal towns that only have 10,000 people in them. That is not reality - that is a "Wanted Down Under" myth, which seems to be where you are cribbing your notes about Australia from. Sydneysiders work just as hard, and as long, as New Yorkers do.

Not that OP cares about any of that, but comparing New York's nightlife to Sydney's nightlife, which OP does care about, as I said earlier, you might as well be comparing it to Atlanta or Frankfurt. Sydney also has fairly draconian liquor lockout laws.

PS - I do agree that the New York subway is filthy. But last time I was on the Sydney Metro, a fistfight almost broke out.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 12:58 pm
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
I concur with Pollyanna in that you don't seem to understand Australia very well, and I would also like to know how long you were here.

The reason Sydney and Melbourne real estate prices skyrocketed is because nobody wants to move to all that undeveloped coast line. This is one of the most urbanised countries in the world. Australians - especially young ones - view country towns as poison. They don't and won't go Outback or regional, and this has been a constant theme for all of Federation. Viewing all that coast and interior "empty" as something just waiting to be developed and built up, is to not understand Australia and its growth patterns at all.

If you are whinging about New York being a sanctuary city for illegal migrants, good gosh, what in the world do you think Sydney and Melbourne are?

Nor do I know anyone who goes to the beach after work de rigeur, including in small coastal towns that only have 10,000 people in them. That is not reality - that is a "Wanted Down Under" myth, which seems to be where you are cribbing your notes about Australia from. Sydneysiders work just as hard, and as long, as New Yorkers do.

Not that OP cares about any of that, but comparing New York's nightlife to Sydney's nightlife, which OP does care about, as I said earlier, you might as well be comparing it to Atlanta or Frankfurt. Sydney also has fairly draconian liquor lockout laws.

PS - I do agree that the New York subway is filthy. But last time I was on the Sydney Metro, a fistfight almost broke out.
If all the OP cares about is nightlife and dating. NYC is a good option. For a few years in his early thirties. Trust me I did this.

Problem is, where does the OP go afterwards ? He may have given up his one and only chance to go to Australia.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 1:11 pm
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

I came to New York when I was 30 and single and on a comparable salary to what you are being offered. I found flatmates (which was necessary to live in Manhattan on what I was earning) and lived in some of the "coolest" places. I had a ball and lived it up since I thought I would only be there for a couple of years. The stinger was that I couldn't find a job back in London (I didn't try *that* hard) and ended up staying here and subsequently settling down and having a family. In the meantime, my parents back home got older and my mother was diagnosed with cancer and died. During the year and a half my mother was ill, I went back and forth to the UK on an almost monthly basis. It was extremely stressful, but not half as stressful (or impossible) as it would have been had I lived in Australia. It's all relative I suppose, but I don't think of NYC being that far from the UK and I know that I can be there in 10 hours door-to-door if I have to.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 1:17 pm
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

Originally Posted by britinusa777777755 View Post
It’s a no brainer if you work in construction. Australia is a mostly empty but growing country which has so much potential. It’s vast coastline is largely undeveloped.

The country has less than 25 million people but grows its population at an alarming rate. Everyone needs housing and companies need office space.

New York City is a sanctuary city for illegal immigrants. Spanish is a good skill to have when working in the construction industry here. Australia by comparison has a very tough immigration policy that is largely consistent across the country.

Do you have a family? Sydney is far more family friendly than NYC it’s laughable how unlivable NYC is for families, that aren’t millionaires. My wife and I make 150K combined here and we are holding off having kids until we leave NYC.....
Well the OP mentioned it was an office job in construction and you don't just need empty space to build. You can also renovate existing properties or build on derelict sites etc. Also a lot of the coastline in Australia is protected and just because a place is less populated, doesn't mean you have more potential. Most of the desert is unpopulated too and will probably remain so.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 1:49 pm
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

$85k in NYC is doable if you're single and not too extravagant, but it will cramp your style. As kateinbrooklyn says you'll probably need to flat-share (or settle for something small in not such a good area). Cost of living here is harsh. Personally, if I were in your shoes I wouldn't settle for less than $100k for the NYC job.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 3:20 pm
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

$85k for construction management in NYC is underpaid (not sure of your position, but a PM would be same salary as the Sydney role, and a Senior PM more like $135k - check Glassdoor.com). I used to work for an Australian construction company in the New York office - there are some great opportunities in NYC (especially hi-rise / ultraluxury) that can make your career.

Are you going to be able to bring your holiday allowance across from the UK? Negotiate if it's less than 20 days.

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Old Jan 9th 2018, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: Move to New York or Sydney?

I was just in Sydney in December and really enjoyed it. It seems to me to be a fine place to live (but I was obviously just a visitor). The main issue is the distance. You might think it doesn't matter, but it really does. A 7 hour flight from NYC to London is so much better and easier to do than however long it is from the UK to Sydney. It pretty much took us 24 hours from NYC to Sydney (via China).
I think even Singapore might be better than Sydney just because of the distance. I really wish it was closer.

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