celticgrid

Just the combination of facts that were stated. I've no special insight or piece of information. So, given the 'fact' that this man was flagged up to be re-investigated when he renewed his visa, from a safety/security point of view, I think any existing visa should have been cancelled.

As per my earlier comment re. the length of visas and the fact that people can change, it seems that the officials had decided that in x months he should be really well investigated. So, why is it okay for him to keep travelling between now and then? Trouble is, that would possibly have meant someone admitting they might have made a mistake...

Just my view.

solo-g

Having applied for a visa in London to the USA on my Kenyan passport, I can tell you that the validity is determined by reciprocal tables that the USA has with other countries. Thus a Nigerian will get a visa valid for 2 years regardless of if its his first time or 10th. UK citizens get 10 years while I get 1 year. http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/re...city_3272.html

And you all need to cool it with calls for more racial profiling. Its no fun being questioned by 5 different CBP agents and made to go through all the machines(x-rays, puffers) all while on transit!

wtkp0u

Had the full body patdown at Heathrow yesterday. Only thing is, it's not a full body patdown and they weren't checking women (at least the few just ahead of me in the queue). So it's window dressing, even if the intent is good.

SEL_boy

My point in a nutshell...

SEL_boy

It seems to me that there was a period a few years ago when they became more keen on looking at your visa at check-in, because a rule changed that meant that if an airline flew you in to a destination with a bum visa, the airline was responsible for getting you back to your departure point. So they tried make sure that never happened.

I'm fairly sure the last few times I've flown they haven't done that, though.


In fact the last couple of times I've flown I've checked in online, and apart from the initial entry to security where they look at your passport, nobody has looked at anything but the boarding pass I printed myself at home. I could have given it to anybody in the departure lounge and they would have no idea who was really on the plane...

chartreuse

I have vague memories of there being some kind of fine for the airline, too.

Yep. That's why many security experts claim that the whole ID checking thing is more a matter of revenue protection on the airlines part, preventing folks from giving non-refundable tickets that they can't use to others.

Said experts also point out (as you do) that it doesn't work.

celticgrid

In case anyone is interested, a link to a very good expert's article...

Bruce Schneier Website article

Tarkak9

The "no fly" list is a joke... its like a bobby saying "Stop!... or I'll say Stop! again."
as I've said before, airline 'security' is not about safety... its about PR.

Deedee13

lets face it the world has gone mad.. Years ago we had to go around our cars with a mirror on a stick - still cars got blown up. People put razor blades in the collars of their shirts. Now we have women who strap bombs to their babies in strollers> Willing to sacrafice their kids in the name of whatever it is they believe in. We have young girls thinking that to become a suicide bomber is an honour! So what do we do sit back and let it happen and just accept it. Or do we do something about it? If we do something about it - What?

FLight 253 has just shown us that there are people out there that will, and can. There will always be a way, were humans. Some will always make a mistake, and some will always find another way. Look at drug traffikers - swallowing condoms full of dope so as not to be detected - whats the answer. There is none! If someone wants to do something - especially a group like this bunch of nutcases then they will try, fail and try again and one day they will succeed. WE just have to make it as difficult as possible for them in the only way we know how, or can. Its inconvieniencing a lot of travellers, a lot of families but what is the alternative? planning a funeral for a loved one. The world has gone basically mad - we live in this society that is out of control. Thsi time the security list was screwed up - a system failed. But there are kids out there that are not on the list, training, living their dream of one day becoming a hero in the eyes of the nutters for a day and making our lives miserable. So were moaning and groaning about a stupid extra security precaution - they sit and laugh. For me i dont give a rats ass if I get patted down, have no luggage i want to get on a plane and I want to be able to get off it in one piece at the other end.

I remember someone saying once. I would rather be four hours late in this world than four hours early in the next. If that means this BS then so be it. We live in a society where there are unfortunately no boundries.

Bluegrass Lass

If you well and truly feel that way, then they've won. Because of terrorists, and in the name of 'security', laws/rules are being enacted that are systematically eating away at the very freedoms that we cherish and they despise.

Most of us on this thread have no probs with additional security measures that actually make sense and will actually accomplish additional levels of safety. But rules that will do nothing to protect us, ie. making you sit in your seat like a robot for the last hour of the flight, will do nothing to protect us and that is what most of us on this thread are protesting.

"Give me liberty or give me death" is how I whole heartedly feel.

tony126

Unfortunately this will happen again. I hope I am wrong. There were two attempts (same method) at the Twin Towers before the bizarre successful 3rd attempt. There have now been two un-successful attempts (same method, same explosive) on aircraft. Will there be a third? Personally I think there will be as they learn from their mistakes and that is and will be despite the millions of $'s already spent plus more millions to come. I am all for making it difficult for them and do not mind the harassment I get at an airport.

Bob

Unfortunately all the security is just window dressing, to be seen to be doing something when reality is that it is a waste of time.

A mate just went through Boston airport, wasn't till he got through the other side that he noticed he still had his blade attached to his keys...and I'm pretty sure double edged razor blades aren't allowed as hand luggage.

What's the point in not letting a parent bring in baby formula for security when it's so easy to bring a knife on a plane?

It's only worth doing if it's effective and consistently applied.

Sally Redux

Agree totally, it's mainly to make people feel something is being done.

meauxna

Your DH's British passport shows that he's eligible to use the VWP; the ESTA clearance is electronic; presumably a refusal will show in the computer at checkin (this is still theory, I don't know if they're doing that yet). To the airline, he has the proper travel document. Admission will be another story.

The Immigrant Visa is in the passport. If the airline check in doesn't examine it, they still don't need to. The UK passport allows him to travel on the VWP.
I don't think so. I think the airlines are interested in whether or not they will have to pay to fly the person back if they didn't have the correct travel document. As long as the visa is still within its validity period, I think that's what they are checking for. That Bruce Schneier essay is great, and reinforces that the airlines aren't checking for security reasons as much as business.


Thank you! I forgot completely about the reciprocity tables.

lansbury

They can check by looking at the visa if it is still in date. I don't think the airlines have anyway of checking if it has been canceled. They can only check the name against the US no fly list.