Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
Mar 17th 2013, 2:49 am
#32
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15
Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
Yeah, I know, you're all about the thunder clouds, right? Maybe you should ask BE to spring for more bandwidth.
I think I read in another thread that you're moving to Canada or something, so good on ya for finding your bliss. It seems you'll be happier there.
I think I read in another thread that you're moving to Canada or something, so good on ya for finding your bliss. It seems you'll be happier there.
Mar 17th 2013, 2:51 am
#33
Under blue skies
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: East Anglia->New England
Posts: 3,624
Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
Believe me, you'd complain just as much if you went to live in the UK for more than a visit. (I have American relatives who have done that.) It's completely natural! I don't understand why you're so surprised at the grumblings on this site....
Mar 17th 2013, 2:57 am
#34
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 73,212
Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
This entire site has been so eye-opening for me. I have so many questions. I picked my screen name because we Americans get BASHED on here. I'm not normally the flag-waving type, but finding out so many people in the world seem to dislike us really perks up my pride even more.
In response to the discussion about employment, it seems some of you want the best parts of socialism combined with the best parts of capitalism. And since a number of you seem to think Britain does a better job of providing that, I have to ask the obvious question: What keeps you here? If what keeps you here is a job, I assume if you could find an equivalent job in Britain you would. So if you can't, it would seem you're reaping the benefits of American capitalism while at the same time decrying it.
I've only been in England very briefly, and I've never been to other parts of Britain, so I don't have enough experience to make a judgment myself, but I’ve heard a number of British people say a lot of workers in Britain seem miserable; many customer service workers are rude (which I now might understand since this thread seems to suggest poor performers know they’re not in danger of getting fired – I kind of thought that was only a French thing
); hard work doesn't get rewarded; ambitious people are often looked down upon; entrepreneurial spirit isn’t as prevalent among the young as it is in America; and there’s accepted “class”/accent discrimination in hiring and promotion. So I ask those who’ve worked in both Britain and America, a) do you generally find these to be true, and b) if so, do you have any theories on why, despite what many of you say are superior working conditions in Britain, workers might be unhappier anyway? In other words, why aren’t long lunches, shorter days, longer vacations, government-sponsored health care, etc., making employees happier? Is it the rain? Seriously, I’m interested in your theories.
On another note, my jaw drops to the floor when I read about the many on this site who seem to move to Arizona, or Texas, or Florida, and then say they’re leaving America because it’s too hot and too Republican??? That would be like me saying I left France because I discovered after I moved there they spoke French.
Tip 1 of life in America, and of anywhere in the world: If you don’t like hot weather, don’t move to a desert, man. (Or a Florida tropical zone.) Makes life so much easier. If you don’t like conservatives, move to Massachusetts or New York or Vermont; if you don’t like harsh winters, move to the West Coast or the South. We have plenty of climate and political choice here. Don’t blame an entire country because you pitch your tent in a desert and expect sand to become ocean beneath your feet.
I personally couldn’t imagine living permanently in a country governed by a monarchy (talk about antiquated government systems...), but if I did, I would know know what I was getting into and wouldn’t spend my days sulking because an entire country wouldn’t change for me. And I’m someone who absolutely agrees America has much to improve upon; maybe someday we’ll get to a point where we can offer the rose without the thorns.
On the other hand, it occurs to me that overlooked in the criticism about health care is the fact that the U.S. has also pioneered worker safety measures; pioneered product safety and child safety regulations; abandoned a lot of industrial practices that were damaging to people and the environment; encourages (at some level) developing countries to improve working conditions and environmental practices; is probably the easiest country in the world in which to sue corporations for discrimination, deceptive advertising, injury, malpractice, shoddy workmanship and the like; and led the world in anti-smoking education and initiatives, banning smoking in a lot of places so workers wouldn’t be forced to breathe smoke against their will. Maybe some Europeans would prefer shorter maternity leaves in exchange for not having to suck down other people’s smoke during the pregnancy. There are a lot of positive things about the U.S. approach to healthy living. The U.S. is not indifferent to the needs of workers.
I think the idea behind the U.S. approach might be that when a company is free to gear its efforts toward maximum profit (by doing things like firing crappy workers, for instance), that company will then have the natural incentive to make its workers’ lives more pleasant in order to attract the best employees. Which doesn’t always happen, of course, but does happen with a lot of innovative companies; the most progressive of them offer perks and bonuses that would probably blow other Western countries out of the water. And getting fired isn’t always an awful thing people need to be protected from at all costs; sometimes it frees you to discover and pursue your true passions in life. I’ve been let go a few times in my life, and every time other than when took I the opportunity to pursue my own business ventures, I walked out the door and found a higher-paying job.
Ultimately, I have to say, if I have to choose between health care and sunshine, sunshine wins every day of the week. NO CONTEST. Human beings did actually survive before health insurance, you know. Did the pilgrims have the NHS to tuck them in at night? They survived, huh?
In response to the discussion about employment, it seems some of you want the best parts of socialism combined with the best parts of capitalism. And since a number of you seem to think Britain does a better job of providing that, I have to ask the obvious question: What keeps you here? If what keeps you here is a job, I assume if you could find an equivalent job in Britain you would. So if you can't, it would seem you're reaping the benefits of American capitalism while at the same time decrying it.
I've only been in England very briefly, and I've never been to other parts of Britain, so I don't have enough experience to make a judgment myself, but I’ve heard a number of British people say a lot of workers in Britain seem miserable; many customer service workers are rude (which I now might understand since this thread seems to suggest poor performers know they’re not in danger of getting fired – I kind of thought that was only a French thing
); hard work doesn't get rewarded; ambitious people are often looked down upon; entrepreneurial spirit isn’t as prevalent among the young as it is in America; and there’s accepted “class”/accent discrimination in hiring and promotion. So I ask those who’ve worked in both Britain and America, a) do you generally find these to be true, and b) if so, do you have any theories on why, despite what many of you say are superior working conditions in Britain, workers might be unhappier anyway? In other words, why aren’t long lunches, shorter days, longer vacations, government-sponsored health care, etc., making employees happier? Is it the rain? Seriously, I’m interested in your theories.On another note, my jaw drops to the floor when I read about the many on this site who seem to move to Arizona, or Texas, or Florida, and then say they’re leaving America because it’s too hot and too Republican??? That would be like me saying I left France because I discovered after I moved there they spoke French.
Tip 1 of life in America, and of anywhere in the world: If you don’t like hot weather, don’t move to a desert, man. (Or a Florida tropical zone.) Makes life so much easier. If you don’t like conservatives, move to Massachusetts or New York or Vermont; if you don’t like harsh winters, move to the West Coast or the South. We have plenty of climate and political choice here. Don’t blame an entire country because you pitch your tent in a desert and expect sand to become ocean beneath your feet.
I personally couldn’t imagine living permanently in a country governed by a monarchy (talk about antiquated government systems...), but if I did, I would know know what I was getting into and wouldn’t spend my days sulking because an entire country wouldn’t change for me. And I’m someone who absolutely agrees America has much to improve upon; maybe someday we’ll get to a point where we can offer the rose without the thorns.
On the other hand, it occurs to me that overlooked in the criticism about health care is the fact that the U.S. has also pioneered worker safety measures; pioneered product safety and child safety regulations; abandoned a lot of industrial practices that were damaging to people and the environment; encourages (at some level) developing countries to improve working conditions and environmental practices; is probably the easiest country in the world in which to sue corporations for discrimination, deceptive advertising, injury, malpractice, shoddy workmanship and the like; and led the world in anti-smoking education and initiatives, banning smoking in a lot of places so workers wouldn’t be forced to breathe smoke against their will. Maybe some Europeans would prefer shorter maternity leaves in exchange for not having to suck down other people’s smoke during the pregnancy. There are a lot of positive things about the U.S. approach to healthy living. The U.S. is not indifferent to the needs of workers.
I think the idea behind the U.S. approach might be that when a company is free to gear its efforts toward maximum profit (by doing things like firing crappy workers, for instance), that company will then have the natural incentive to make its workers’ lives more pleasant in order to attract the best employees. Which doesn’t always happen, of course, but does happen with a lot of innovative companies; the most progressive of them offer perks and bonuses that would probably blow other Western countries out of the water. And getting fired isn’t always an awful thing people need to be protected from at all costs; sometimes it frees you to discover and pursue your true passions in life. I’ve been let go a few times in my life, and every time other than when took I the opportunity to pursue my own business ventures, I walked out the door and found a higher-paying job.
Ultimately, I have to say, if I have to choose between health care and sunshine, sunshine wins every day of the week. NO CONTEST. Human beings did actually survive before health insurance, you know. Did the pilgrims have the NHS to tuck them in at night? They survived, huh?
I think you're a bit sensitive. There are other Americans on the forum who seem to get along here just fine. The expats who are here, for the most part, chose to be here - ie we chose your country to live in, at least for a while, so it can't be all bad, eh? And of course we criticize things - so does everyone everywhere, including, I'm sure, Americans who live in the UK.
I do think you need to brush up on UK history, government, and culture a little bit though.
Mar 17th 2013, 3:00 am
#35
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Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Dubuque, Iowa, USA
Posts: 3,770
Mar 17th 2013, 3:10 am
#36
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Joined: Apr 2011
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,117
Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
YankeePride, you asked for comments from those who have lived in both countries. Well, I'll bite. I'm a 'born and raised' American who's lived in Europe and the UK for over 30 years.
I'll comment on just one of the easiest of your points, the Monarchy. I don't intend to go into the political aspects of it, but would like to offer a few facts from my perspective.
I worked in a UK industry that could call on a Royal 'Presence' when needed. The Royalty spend much of their time promoting British products. I've met a number of Royals on numerous occasions. Their presence was always an asset, they were very co-operative, and they did make an impact towards positive results. To be balanced, I will say I was....how should I put it......underwhelmed.. by some particular individuals.
I imagine the city of Londons' budget may have survived for more than a few days thanks to all the American tourists and American TV 'royalties' from William and Kates' marriage.
I've read the cost to every resident of the UK to support the Monarchy is just under $1 a year.
Last year, it cost me $120 to send my US tax return and FBAR to the US Treasury from which neither me, nor the US, benefited in any way.
I certainly know where I feel I get the most 'bang' for my buck.
I'll comment on just one of the easiest of your points, the Monarchy. I don't intend to go into the political aspects of it, but would like to offer a few facts from my perspective.
I worked in a UK industry that could call on a Royal 'Presence' when needed. The Royalty spend much of their time promoting British products. I've met a number of Royals on numerous occasions. Their presence was always an asset, they were very co-operative, and they did make an impact towards positive results. To be balanced, I will say I was....how should I put it......underwhelmed.. by some particular individuals.
I imagine the city of Londons' budget may have survived for more than a few days thanks to all the American tourists and American TV 'royalties' from William and Kates' marriage.
I've read the cost to every resident of the UK to support the Monarchy is just under $1 a year.
Last year, it cost me $120 to send my US tax return and FBAR to the US Treasury from which neither me, nor the US, benefited in any way.
I certainly know where I feel I get the most 'bang' for my buck.
Mar 17th 2013, 3:18 am
#37
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88,105
Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
Mar 17th 2013, 3:22 am
#38
He/him
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 18,950
Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
This entire site has been so eye-opening for me. I have so many questions. I picked my screen name because we Americans get BASHED on here. I'm not normally the flag-waving type, but finding out so many people in the world seem to dislike us really perks up my pride even more.
In response to the discussion about employment, it seems some of you want the best parts of socialism combined with the best parts of capitalism. And since a number of you seem to think Britain does a better job of providing that, I have to ask the obvious question: What keeps you here? If what keeps you here is a job, I assume if you could find an equivalent job in Britain you would. So if you can't, it would seem you're reaping the benefits of American capitalism while at the same time decrying it.
I've only been in England very briefly, and I've never been to other parts of Britain, so I don't have enough experience to make a judgment myself, but I’ve heard a number of British people say a lot of workers in Britain seem miserable; many customer service workers are rude (which I now might understand since this thread seems to suggest poor performers know they’re not in danger of getting fired – I kind of thought that was only a French thing ); hard work doesn't get rewarded; ambitious people are often looked down upon; entrepreneurial spirit isn’t as prevalent among the young as it is in America; and there’s accepted “class”/accent discrimination in hiring and promotion. So I ask those who’ve worked in both Britain and America, a) do you generally find these to be true, and b) if so, do you have any theories on why, despite what many of you say are superior working conditions in Britain, workers might be unhappier anyway? In other words, why aren’t long lunches, shorter days, longer vacations, government-sponsored health care, etc., making employees happier? Is it the rain? Seriously, I’m interested in your theories.
On another note, my jaw drops to the floor when I read about the many on this site who seem to move to Arizona, or Texas, or Florida, and then say they’re leaving America because it’s too hot and too Republican??? That would be like me saying I left France because I discovered after I moved there they spoke French.
Tip 1 of life in America, and of anywhere in the world: If you don’t like hot weather, don’t move to a desert, man. (Or a Florida tropical zone.) Makes life so much easier. If you don’t like conservatives, move to Massachusetts or New York or Vermont; if you don’t like harsh winters, move to the West Coast or the South. We have plenty of climate and political choice here. Don’t blame an entire country because you pitch your tent in a desert and expect sand to become ocean beneath your feet.
I personally couldn’t imagine living permanently in a country governed by a monarchy (talk about antiquated government systems...), but if I did, I would know know what I was getting into and wouldn’t spend my days sulking because an entire country wouldn’t change for me. And I’m someone who absolutely agrees America has much to improve upon; maybe someday we’ll get to a point where we can offer the rose without the thorns.
On the other hand, it occurs to me that overlooked in the criticism about health care is the fact that the U.S. has also pioneered worker safety measures; pioneered product safety and child safety regulations; abandoned a lot of industrial practices that were damaging to people and the environment; encourages (at some level) developing countries to improve working conditions and environmental practices; is probably the easiest country in the world in which to sue corporations for discrimination, deceptive advertising, injury, malpractice, shoddy workmanship and the like; and led the world in anti-smoking education and initiatives, banning smoking in a lot of places so workers wouldn’t be forced to breathe smoke against their will. Maybe some Europeans would prefer shorter maternity leaves in exchange for not having to suck down other people’s smoke during the pregnancy. There are a lot of positive things about the U.S. approach to healthy living. The U.S. is not indifferent to the needs of workers.
I think the idea behind the U.S. approach might be that when a company is free to gear its efforts toward maximum profit (by doing things like firing crappy workers, for instance), that company will then have the natural incentive to make its workers’ lives more pleasant in order to attract the best employees. Which doesn’t always happen, of course, but does happen with a lot of innovative companies; the most progressive of them offer perks and bonuses that would probably blow other Western countries out of the water. And getting fired isn’t always an awful thing people need to be protected from at all costs; sometimes it frees you to discover and pursue your true passions in life. I’ve been let go a few times in my life, and every time other than when took I the opportunity to pursue my own business ventures, I walked out the door and found a higher-paying job.
Ultimately, I have to say, if I have to choose between health care and sunshine, sunshine wins every day of the week. NO CONTEST. Human beings did actually survive before health insurance, you know. Did the pilgrims have the NHS to tuck them in at night? They survived, huh?
In response to the discussion about employment, it seems some of you want the best parts of socialism combined with the best parts of capitalism. And since a number of you seem to think Britain does a better job of providing that, I have to ask the obvious question: What keeps you here? If what keeps you here is a job, I assume if you could find an equivalent job in Britain you would. So if you can't, it would seem you're reaping the benefits of American capitalism while at the same time decrying it.
I've only been in England very briefly, and I've never been to other parts of Britain, so I don't have enough experience to make a judgment myself, but I’ve heard a number of British people say a lot of workers in Britain seem miserable; many customer service workers are rude (which I now might understand since this thread seems to suggest poor performers know they’re not in danger of getting fired – I kind of thought that was only a French thing
); hard work doesn't get rewarded; ambitious people are often looked down upon; entrepreneurial spirit isn’t as prevalent among the young as it is in America; and there’s accepted “class”/accent discrimination in hiring and promotion. So I ask those who’ve worked in both Britain and America, a) do you generally find these to be true, and b) if so, do you have any theories on why, despite what many of you say are superior working conditions in Britain, workers might be unhappier anyway? In other words, why aren’t long lunches, shorter days, longer vacations, government-sponsored health care, etc., making employees happier? Is it the rain? Seriously, I’m interested in your theories.On another note, my jaw drops to the floor when I read about the many on this site who seem to move to Arizona, or Texas, or Florida, and then say they’re leaving America because it’s too hot and too Republican??? That would be like me saying I left France because I discovered after I moved there they spoke French.
Tip 1 of life in America, and of anywhere in the world: If you don’t like hot weather, don’t move to a desert, man. (Or a Florida tropical zone.) Makes life so much easier. If you don’t like conservatives, move to Massachusetts or New York or Vermont; if you don’t like harsh winters, move to the West Coast or the South. We have plenty of climate and political choice here. Don’t blame an entire country because you pitch your tent in a desert and expect sand to become ocean beneath your feet.
I personally couldn’t imagine living permanently in a country governed by a monarchy (talk about antiquated government systems...), but if I did, I would know know what I was getting into and wouldn’t spend my days sulking because an entire country wouldn’t change for me. And I’m someone who absolutely agrees America has much to improve upon; maybe someday we’ll get to a point where we can offer the rose without the thorns.
On the other hand, it occurs to me that overlooked in the criticism about health care is the fact that the U.S. has also pioneered worker safety measures; pioneered product safety and child safety regulations; abandoned a lot of industrial practices that were damaging to people and the environment; encourages (at some level) developing countries to improve working conditions and environmental practices; is probably the easiest country in the world in which to sue corporations for discrimination, deceptive advertising, injury, malpractice, shoddy workmanship and the like; and led the world in anti-smoking education and initiatives, banning smoking in a lot of places so workers wouldn’t be forced to breathe smoke against their will. Maybe some Europeans would prefer shorter maternity leaves in exchange for not having to suck down other people’s smoke during the pregnancy. There are a lot of positive things about the U.S. approach to healthy living. The U.S. is not indifferent to the needs of workers.
I think the idea behind the U.S. approach might be that when a company is free to gear its efforts toward maximum profit (by doing things like firing crappy workers, for instance), that company will then have the natural incentive to make its workers’ lives more pleasant in order to attract the best employees. Which doesn’t always happen, of course, but does happen with a lot of innovative companies; the most progressive of them offer perks and bonuses that would probably blow other Western countries out of the water. And getting fired isn’t always an awful thing people need to be protected from at all costs; sometimes it frees you to discover and pursue your true passions in life. I’ve been let go a few times in my life, and every time other than when took I the opportunity to pursue my own business ventures, I walked out the door and found a higher-paying job.
Ultimately, I have to say, if I have to choose between health care and sunshine, sunshine wins every day of the week. NO CONTEST. Human beings did actually survive before health insurance, you know. Did the pilgrims have the NHS to tuck them in at night? They survived, huh?
By the way, if you ever go to Antarctica, take a coat, not all deserts are hot and dry.
Mar 17th 2013, 3:24 am
#39
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 73,212
Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
Only in the US do I meet this love of country being considered an article of faith. Elsewhere, concrete goods and evils are subject to rational assessment, without it in any way impugning one's love of one's own country or patriotism or whatever. Goodness knows we Brits criticize our own country 
. Please note that I'm not saying that every American does this - as we know from our very own Americans on this board.
. Please note that I'm not saying that every American does this - as we know from our very own Americans on this board.
Mar 17th 2013, 3:45 am
#40
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 73,212
Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
Have a little read about the constitutional monarchy of the UK.
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...-monarchy.html
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...-monarchy.html
Mar 17th 2013, 3:51 am
#41
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: In a darkened room somewhere.............
Posts: 34,171
Re: Message to British Expats (Split from the Newbie how to get a visa thread)
It's like comparing Big Bird from Sesame St to Stephen Hawking.
Mar 17th 2013, 3:55 am
#43
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: In a darkened room somewhere.............
Posts: 34,171
Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
B.S. that the monarchy's existence has no practical impact on the daily lives of the population. You don't think it affects the psyche, even subconsciously, of somebody who has a "lesser" accent, or different skin color, or nontraditional religion to know there's an enormous position of privilege and wealth in their homeland to which they can effectively never aspire?
All the money and palaces in the world wouldn't make up for that amount of crap, I wouldn't swap places with her for anything.
Mar 17th 2013, 4:02 am
#44
He/him
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 18,950
Re: Newbie!!! how to get a visa questions ):
Personally, no, I don't think it affects most. But then I think the life of the Queen is far from 'privileged' and can't imagine anybody would 'aspire' to it. Still working hard in her eighties, never able to make her own choices ('what do you want to be when you grow up?', 'oh, I forgot you don't actually get a say in your own life!'), being gawped at all the time, every little thing you say or do scrutinised, never being able to just go out without make up on, having to be 'on duty' pretty much all the time, etc, etc, etc.
All the money and palaces in the world wouldn't make up for that amount of crap, I wouldn't swap places with her for anything.
All the money and palaces in the world wouldn't make up for that amount of crap, I wouldn't swap places with her for anything.
