Originally Posted by Duncan Roberts

Have you got stats to prove that? I know for a fact that the top 2 at BUPA get paid about £3 a year between them. You may also need to go back and look at the different countries and how their systems actually work. They all use some form of insurance, a lot use private insurance companies as part of the universal system, some use private insurance outside the universal system and some of them don't cover the whole population or cover them at significantly less than 100% of bill.

As for the other countries having some sort of universal system so the US should be able to do it easily, look at the population of those countries when they started their plans and the problems they have had as the population grows and then look at the population of the US. Starting a completely new system for 310,000,000 is extremely complicated and with a projected growth of 30,000,000 (which is about half the entire UK population) in 10 years, it's massively complex.

Originally Posted by Duncan Roberts

Yes, the access is generally not tied to the company. I think Germany has a system where it can partially be but not mandated.

My example of the NHS is that national insurance pays a part and the employee contribution is only 50% of the premium, the employer picks up the remaining 50%. So when a company gives a raise they are giving the raise money plus the additional NI on that increase.

Originally Posted by Duncan Roberts

It's not the portion that matters, just the fact that it is a cost to employers and it's not this magical free system that nobody pays for that a lot of people say.

Originally Posted by MsElui

also bear in mind that the NI contributiuon has an upper cap -= so once the employee is paid over that amount the NI payments dont go up any more.

Originally Posted by Englishtart

I can't remember anyone saying it was 'free', but that really isn't the point is it? How many people do you know that have gone bankrupt in the UK from medical bills?

UK residents can obviously afford to pay the contributions to the NHS, nobody I know would move to the US to get better/cheaper health care, yet there are plenty of people (read the MBTTUK forum) that are going home to the UK because they cannot afford to stay here once they start to need more and more medical help.

Originally Posted by Duncan Roberts

I am very well aware of the shortcomings of the US system. The $10,000+ a year just for me to stay alive would cause major problems should I ever lose my health insurance. I also don't have access to things that would make it easier for me because I can't afford them, even with insurance. You have to look at the good and the bad of the system and how it really works before coming up with a solution. I've been slowly researching it for 5 years but I still don't understand most of it.

Originally Posted by Nutmegger

But there are systems in place for all these things that have been built up over the years; the complication is in setting up an immense totally new system, which will be looked at more critically and by more people than most new highways, from scratch.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe

The US's spending priorities are undoubtedly misguided (and we never hear these teabag people wanting to cut military spending, of course...) but that's only one part of the puzzle. The bottom line is that the US spends a far bigger proportion of its GDP on healthcare (16%) than any other western nation, and yet still leaves a good chunk of its population outside of the "system".

Originally Posted by Duncan Roberts

Have you really thought about that? What would you do with all the direct health insurance industry employees and all of the employees of other services that revolve around the health insurance industry who would be out of jobs? There won't be enough to go around with those and all the defense industry jobs you say should be cut.

Insurance is just one part of the healthcare industry. The industry doesn't just revolve around hospitals/doctors and insurance companies, it pretty much touches every single industry in the country.

Originally Posted by Duncan Roberts

Yes we do evolve. However today is very different to the times when the light bulb was invented or the automobile came along, you can't dump that many people out of jobs and expect it to be OK. If you think about all the services that revolve around keeping the healthcare industry going you are talking about millions and millions of people. If you are going to displace a massive chunk of them you need to have a plan to handle the massive loss of tax revenue, the massive reduction in consumer spending, the massive increase in welfare claims, etc. Pretty much, what would you do if the unemployment rate double practically overnight? Just the revenue in lost taxes would likely eat up the money you saved from defense cuts.

Originally Posted by Fish n Chips 56

So your answer to this problem is its too difficult so why even bother trying, We can send men to the moon and spend billions on wars but we cant sort out healthcare billing, maybe it would be simpler to turn back the clock 60 years, Whatever happened to Americans can do attitude?

If you have a negative attitude you'l never accomplish anything.

Originally Posted by Fish n Chips 56

Its all about paperwork, changing billing adresses and paying Drs for their services, its do able, yes it would take time and effort, but most things do.