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marriage visa what now?

marriage visa what now?

Old Oct 14th 2002, 10:58 pm
  #1  
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Unhappy marriage visa what now?

ohhhh i hope somebody out there can help me and won't charge me $149 like some people wish to. here's my case:

i'm currently an american citizen who's engaged to a uk citizen....we're getting married july 19th and i have NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING paper wise. heheh...ok.

sooooo everyone keeps pointing me at K-1 forms, but he doesn't wish to reside here after marriage. i want to move with him in august back to coventry where he lives....so what forms do i need for him and myself?? i thought the k-1 was just for permanent residency for my fiance in the us?? PLEASE somebody help me :/

-lex

ps-sorry if this sounds frazzled and i'm bypassing something inanely simple...i've been searching for hours and just getting myself more and more confused and lost

can we get legally married and then move a couple weeks after if he gets a visa waiver??
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Old Oct 15th 2002, 12:41 am
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Default Re: marriage visa what now?

if he is not planning on staying, then there is NO need for a K1 or any
other kind of visa if he qualifies for the visa waiver. He can simply enter
on the waiver as a tourist, get married, then leave with you after. It is
legal, and the way it should be done if you both are planning on settling
down outside the US.
He should take care to bring plenty of proof that he plans to return to his
home country after the wedding (letter from his job, lease/mortgage
paperwork, pay stubs, return flight tickets for both of you), or the POE
will assume he will try to stay, and refuse him entry.

"lexelf" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
.com
...
    > ohhhh i hope somebody out there can help me and won't charge me $149
    > like some people wish to. here's my case:
    > i'm currently an american citizen who's engaged to a uk citizen....we're
    > getting married july 19th and i have NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING paper wise.
    > heheh...ok.
    > sooooo everyone keeps pointing me at K-1 forms, but he doesn't wish to
    > reside here after marriage. i want to move with him in august back to
    > coventry where he lives....so what forms do i need for him and myself??
    > i thought the k-1 was just for permanent residency for my fiance in the
    > us?? PLEASE somebody help me :/
    > -lex
    > ps-sorry if this sounds frazzled and i'm bypassing something inanely
    > simple...i've been searching for hours and just getting myself more
    > and more confused and lost
    > can we get legally married and then move a couple weeks after if he gets
    > a visa waiver??
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Oct 15th 2002, 1:25 am
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Default Re: marriage visa what now?

Originally posted by lexelf:
ohhhh i hope somebody out there can help me and won't charge me $149 like some people wish to. here's my case:

i'm currently an american citizen who's engaged to a uk citizen....we're getting married july 19th and i have NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING paper wise. heheh...ok.

sooooo everyone keeps pointing me at K-1 forms, but he doesn't wish to reside here after marriage. i want to move with him in august back to coventry where he lives....so what forms do i need for him and myself?? i thought the k-1 was just for permanent residency for my fiance in the us?? PLEASE somebody help me :/

-lex

ps-sorry if this sounds frazzled and i'm bypassing something inanely simple...i've been searching for hours and just getting myself more and more confused and lost

can we get legally married and then move a couple weeks after if he gets a visa waiver??
Hi:

Yours is a particularly difficult case. Your fiance's entry to get married and then leave fits within the definition of a B-2 temporary visit. However, the law also presumes that he is NOT a temporary visitor. On top of that -- it is up to the inspector at port of entry to make this determination.

Your appeal rights from an adverse POE determination can be summed up in one word: none.

I wonder if the best course just might be to have him apply for a visitors visa at the US embassy with full disclosure. Use of the visa waiver provision makes me nervous.

I don't feel there is really a good answer to this one. It may seem strange, but you have hit upon what is actually one of the more difficult areas in the US immigration laws.

Good luck.
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Old Oct 15th 2002, 1:37 am
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Default Re: marriage visa what now?

Originally posted by lexelf:
i want to move with him in august back to coventry where he lives....so what forms do i need for him and myself??
You're going to need to look at the IND site at http://194.203.40.90/ in that case then, as you will need to apply for a spouse visa for the UK.

Unless you get married there, in which case you'll want a UK fiance visa.

For a load more related sites, go to http://www.yahoo.co.uk and type in "UK Immigration" and select the "UK Only" option before submitting.
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Old Oct 15th 2002, 2:42 am
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Default Re: marriage visa what now?

i was looking into the b-2's, but i'm pretty sure he'll get refused. he applied for a fiance visa and got declined so i'm scared it'll happen again...they said there "wasn't enough evidence he'd return to the UK"

is there any way we can convince them he'll return?? should we get his and my return ticket asap??

i'm sorry i'm asking so much, i really haven't a clue what to do :/

also, if he applies for a visitors visa, should he fill out the forms and send them in, or go straight to an embassy??

Originally posted by Folinskyinla:


Hi:

Yours is a particularly difficult case. Your fiance's entry to get married and then leave fits within the definition of a B-2 temporary visit. However, the law also presumes that he is NOT a temporary visitor. On top of that -- it is up to the inspector at port of entry to make this determination.

Your appeal rights from an adverse POE determination can be summed up in one word: none.

I wonder if the best course just might be to have him apply for a visitors visa at the US embassy with full disclosure. Use of the visa waiver provision makes me nervous.

I don't feel there is really a good answer to this one. It may seem strange, but you have hit upon what is actually one of the more difficult areas in the US immigration laws.

Good luck.
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Old Oct 15th 2002, 6:06 am
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lexelf wrote:
    > i was looking into the b-2's, but i'm pretty sure he'll get refused. he
    > applied for a fiance visa and got declined so i'm scared it'll happen
    > again...they said there "wasn't enough evidence he'd return to the UK"

This doesn't make sense. A fiance visa assumes he WILL stay in the US.
There is no need to prove that he would return to the UK. So, if he got
declined for a fiance visa, that wasn't the reason. Did you really file
I-129F to get him a fiance visa? If so, what was the real reason it was
declined?

There is no need for a B-2 unless he doesn't qualify for visa waiver. On
top of that B-2 requires him to mention the fiance in the US when he
applies for it. That wouldn't be a problem for the waiver.
 
Old Oct 15th 2002, 8:48 am
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Default Re: marriage visa what now?

Originally posted by lexelf:
i was looking into the b-2's, but i'm pretty sure he'll get refused. he applied for a fiance visa and got declined so i'm scared it'll happen again...they said there "wasn't enough evidence he'd return to the UK"

is there any way we can convince them he'll return?? should we get his and my return ticket asap??

i'm sorry i'm asking so much, i really haven't a clue what to do :/

also, if he applies for a visitors visa, should he fill out the forms and send them in, or go straight to an embassy??

Hi:

Fear is an appropriate emotion here. In addition to being afraid of being refused the B-2, you shold also be afraid that he would be refused entry at the Port of Entry -- and a POE refusal is not only a lot more disappointing, it also can impose legal consequences such as being considered a formal deportation which is a bar to even getting a visa to come to the US.

Also, look at the time AFTER you get married -- he'll want to come to the US from time to time with you to visit the "in-laws", no?? An old college chum married an Italian and he had problems in getting a visa for the first time in his life because he was married to a US citizen.

Again, this is a judgment call -- but if he applies for a visa he should attach a statement stating that he is marrying a US citizen but has every intention of living in the UK and that his wife will apply for permanent leave to remain in the UK upon marriage. Admit that reason for applying for visa is resolve any questions before entry. Then really document ties to the UK -- job, saving, home, family, etc etc. Honestly acknowledging a problem and then dealing with it is often the way to go with consulates.

And if denied -- ask what more can I give you? A 221(g) denial is not final.

An attempt at a visa waiver entry is legal, but it scares me. It scares ME and its not MY application or that of my spouse [we're both US citizens]; it scares me and you're not my client! [To be more direct: there is no attorney-client relationship between you and me].

Good luck and Godspeed.
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Old Oct 15th 2002, 3:32 pm
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Default Re: marriage visa what now?

i was thinking that didn't make much sense either, but they really did refuse him on the grounds that "there wasn't enough evidence he'd return to the uk" after his 6 months here or whatever was up. he was going to come here this month but got declined, so now he has to come here for 3 months, go back home, come here again in june so we can get married end of july and go back early august. i was thinking he had filled out a b-2, but he was adament he hadn't...maybe he was confused. but even if it was a b-2 we're screwed anyway because if he needs proof to return i'm at a loss of what to do...he'll be going to school so maybe that'll be enough. i hope so.

Originally posted by [email protected]:
lexelf wrote:
    > i was looking into the b-2's, but i'm pretty sure he'll get refused. he
    > applied for a fiance visa and got declined so i'm scared it'll happen
    > again...they said there "wasn't enough evidence he'd return to the UK"

This doesn't make sense. A fiance visa assumes he WILL stay in the US.
There is no need to prove that he would return to the UK. So, if he got
declined for a fiance visa, that wasn't the reason. Did you really file
I-129F to get him a fiance visa? If so, what was the real reason it was
declined?

There is no need for a B-2 unless he doesn't qualify for visa waiver. On
top of that B-2 requires him to mention the fiance in the US when he
applies for it. That wouldn't be a problem for the waiver.
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Old Oct 15th 2002, 5:25 pm
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Default Re: marriage visa what now?

A couple of points worth mentioning here.

1. If he was refused any type of US visa, he will have to apply for a visa each time he wishes to enter the USA. In other words, the visa waiver program is no longer an option for him.

2. If it really was a K-1 visa, a denial does not stop it being pending, as you would have been given a year to rectify whatever the problem was. Details of which would have been on the blue form the Embassy gave him. You'll both need to cancel the visa if it is still active, if you want him to go to the USA for a visit. Otherwise, address whatever the problem was so the process can continue.


It does sound odd that lack of evidence that he intended to return would be a reason for denial of a K-1 visa.

Surely you must know if you filed an application for a K-1 in the USA or not? (I-129F form etc.) He couldn't have applied for a K-1 on his own.


Originally posted by lexelf:
i was thinking that didn't make much sense either, but they really did refuse him on the grounds that "there wasn't enough evidence he'd return to the uk" after his 6 months here or whatever was up. he was going to come here this month but got declined, so now he has to come here for 3 months, go back home, come here again in june so we can get married end of july and go back early august. i was thinking he had filled out a b-2, but he was adament he hadn't...maybe he was confused. but even if it was a b-2 we're screwed anyway because if he needs proof to return i'm at a loss of what to do...he'll be going to school so maybe that'll be enough. i hope so.

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Old Oct 15th 2002, 6:48 pm
  #10  
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lexelf wrote:
    > i was thinking that didn't make much sense either, but they really did
    > refuse him on the grounds that "there wasn't enough evidence he'd return
    > to the uk" after his 6 months here or whatever was up. he was going to
    > come here this month but got declined,

back to the question.. Did you file I-129F for him? Was this approved?
He can't get a fiance visa (k-1) unless his fiance files I-129F.
A K-1 is never refused for not having enough evidence that you return to
the original country.
A K-1 is given with the knowledge the applicant is probably going to
stay in the US.
Also, if he was denied for any visa, then he can NOT enter on the Visa
Waiver Program
If he some how manage to enter and wasn't supposed to, then that may
hurt him later.
If he entered on the Visa Waiver, did he truthfully answer the questions
on the I-94W when he he entered?


    >so now he has to come here for 3
    >months, go back home, come here again in june so we can get married end
    >of july and go back early august. i was thinking he had filled out a
    >b-2, but he was adament he hadn't...maybe he was confused. but even if
    >it was a b-2 we're screwed anyway because if he needs proof to return
    >i'm at a loss of what to do...he'll be going to school so maybe that'll
    >be enough. i hope so.


If he entered this time on a Visa waiver, then the issue is what
questions were asked by INS and how they were answered by him.

You need to determine:

1. What kind of visa the denial was really for. (it probably wasn't a
K-1)
2. After the denial did he enter the US on a B-2 or without a visa (Visa
Waiver Program)
3. Was he honest with INS at the point of entry (POE)
 
Old Oct 15th 2002, 7:17 pm
  #11  
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Default Re: marriage visa what now?

"lexelf" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
.com
...
    > i was thinking that didn't make much sense either, but they really did
    > refuse him on the grounds that "there wasn't enough evidence he'd return
    > to the uk" after his 6 months here or whatever was up. he was going to
    > come here this month but got declined, so now he has to come here for 3
    > months, go back home, come here again in june so we can get married end
    > of july and go back early august. i was thinking he had filled out a
    > b-2, but he was adament he hadn't...maybe he was confused. but even if
    > it was a b-2 we're screwed anyway because if he needs proof to return
    > i'm at a loss of what to do...he'll be going to school so maybe that'll
    > be enough. i hope so.

Here's your situation.

First the visa application does not have a box where one specifies "B-2" or
whatever. Rather, it is a generic "non-immigrant visa application" where
the applicant writes up his/her plans, intentions and related details. The
Consular Official then decides which visa classification is appropriate for
the applicant.

I'll bet your fiance went to the Consulate, said that he needed a fiance
visa, and was given the standard "non-immigrant visa application" OF-156 (or
DF-156). They read his application, and denied him a non-immigrant visa.
He didn't apply for a fiance visa, because you can't do that by just going
to a Consulate. The U.S. citizen must first file an I-129F in the U.S., and
a few months later, the Consulate would invite him in for an appointment
(after first filling out tons of paperwork and getting a medical exam).

So, he was essentially denied a B-2 visa, because that's what they
considered his application to be, even if he said to the CO, "I want a
fiance visa".

This presents a problem.

You cannot use the visa waiver to enter the U.S. if you've been denied a
visa. It's right on the I-94W form, question F. He is now ineligible to
use the visa waiver to visit for 90 days.

Should he lie on the I-94W about being denied a visa, he will be permanently
banned from the United States. He should *NOT* attempt to enter the U.S.
using a visa waiver.

He is, however, eligible to reapply for a B-2 visa. He should be much more
prepared this time, and bring strong evidence of his ties to the UK.

He is also eligible to apply for fiance K-1 visa. Remember, you have to
file the I-129F first.

Normally, a K-1 is not necessary if he doesn't intend to stay in the U.S.
However, if you cannot convince the CO that you are eligible for a B-2, then
the K-1 is what you have to do. Note, it is perfectly acceptable to enter
on a K-1, marry, and then leave within the 90 days.

Paulgani
 
Old Oct 15th 2002, 7:31 pm
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Default Re: marriage visa what now?

well this doesn't make sense to me at all. why would he have his visa waiver taken away just because he didn't explain his ties to the uk well enough?? wouldn't they have explained that in the papers they sent back to him??

this is what we found:
Refused a Visa:Travelers who have been refused a visa under the provisions of Section 221(g) or 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act are not prohibited from traveling visa free under the Visa Waiver Program. However, it likely that they will be questioned by the immigration officer at the U. S. port of entry regarding the refusal by the Embassy or Consulate.

and i found out he did apply for a b-2...stupid boy keeps tellin' me different *L*

Originally posted by Myrddin:

1. If he was refused any type of US visa, he will have to apply for a visa each time he wishes to enter the USA. In other words, the visa waiver program is no longer an option for him.


Last edited by lexelf; Oct 15th 2002 at 7:42 pm.
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Old Oct 15th 2002, 7:53 pm
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Default Re: marriage visa what now?

Originally posted by lexelf:
well this doesn't make sense to me at all. why would he have his visa waiver taken away just because he didn't explain his ties to the uk well enough?? wouldn't they have explained that in the papers they sent back to him??

this is what we found:
Refused a Visa:Travelers who have been refused a visa under the provisions of Section 221(g) or 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act are not prohibited from traveling visa free under the Visa Waiver Program. However, it likely that they will be questioned by the immigration officer at the U. S. port of entry regarding the refusal by the Embassy or Consulate.

and i found out he did apply for a b-2...stupid boy keeps tellin' me different *L*


Hi,

From the US Embassy web site

I will return to my place of permanent residence after the marriage ceremony: The fiancé(e) of a U.S. citizen who will marry in the United States and return to his or her place of permanent residence abroad after the marriage ceremony may apply for a tourist (B-2) visa, or if eligible, travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program. When applying for the visa and/or entry into the United States the fiancé(e) should be sure to carry with him or her for presentation to U.S. immigration evidence of a residence abroad to which he or she will return at the end of the temporary visit.



Patrick
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Old Oct 15th 2002, 8:07 pm
  #14  
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Default Re: marriage visa what now?

Originally posted by lexelf:
well this doesn't make sense to me at all. why would he have his visa waiver taken away just because he didn't explain his ties to the uk well enough?? wouldn't they have explained that in the papers they sent back to him??

this is what we found:
Refused a Visa:Travelers who have been refused a visa under the provisions of Section 221(g) or 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act are not prohibited from traveling visa free under the Visa Waiver Program. However, it likely that they will be questioned by the immigration officer at the U. S. port of entry regarding the refusal by the Embassy or Consulate.

and i found out he did apply for a b-2...stupid boy keeps tellin' me different *L*

I'm a USC and my husband is a UKC. We got married march 2001 in the US and then returned to Holland (where i had been hopping in and out of every three months to stay legal). We didn't get him a visa, we didnt' get any guff at the POE (thought this was pre 9/11) and I think we even said we were going there to get married. After we got back to the UK I was denied a settlement visa so I had to return to the US to get an Entry Clearance Visa which was good for a year. The year was up in July and we are now moving to the US and trying to get a K3 for him to come to the US. It's a helluva lot easier to immigrate to the UK than vice versa. The only reason I was denied a settlement visa was because I didn't have my original marriage certificate (which they don't give you in my state) and they wouldn't accept a notarized photocopy.
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Old Oct 15th 2002, 9:30 pm
  #15  
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Default Re: marriage visa what now?

i just wanted to thank everyone so very much for their information and personal accounts i'm planning to have him try for another b-2 and if he gets denied that i'll call my local embassy, tell them my situation and have him come here with a visa waiver. i'll call the local embassy anyway, just to make sure i'm going at this the right way...but again,
THANK YOU SO MUCH everyone's made me feel a lot more at ease about this whole process!

-lex
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