Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Hi,

New here and seeking a bit of pre-move advice. Through my company I have an opportunity to re-locate to the US, something that both my wife and I have been keen to do for some time. Because of the nature of my work (consultant) I have some say in which office (i.e. city) I'd like to move to, and currently am feeling a bit spoilt for choice so would appreciate any advice out there.

Background: We've lived in London for the past 6 years and love the city but are looking to change things up in the US by gaining a nicer place (i.e. not small 2 bed apartments!) with some outdoor space for our son to play in (he'll be almost 1 when we move), lower cost of living and cutting down on commuting time.

Our options range across multiple locations, but we've narrowed it down to the following, listed in order of preference:
- San Francisco / Bay Area
- Nashville
- Denver
- Charlotte
- Tampa or Tallahassee
- Atlanta

Since the only place I've been to on here is SF (which I loved apart from the fog ;) ), it's hard to know where to aim for, so any insight into what each offers for a young family would help our choices immensely!

Thanks

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I can't help too much as I don't know any of those places well. It may help if you have a budget you can give for housing. If you search on here you'll see that SF/bay area is expensive to live for the criteria you have given.

Not to spoil a dream but there are a lot of hidden costs in America and it certainly isn't as cheap over here as some people seem to assume. Make sure your company is paying your medical as you're probably looking at $1k/month for that alone.

Having said all of that, I love it here and wouldn't have changed coming out here for the world.

Best of luck to you!

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

We live in SF Bay Area and I love it here, but hell it's expensive. If you are looking to cut down on your expenses I would rule this area out.

I haven't been to any other places on your list, but if I had a choice of living somewhere else I would look at places with an easy/less flying time back to the UK. I know we would have had many more visitors, and gone back more ourselves if we weren't looking at an 11 hour fly.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

SF, especially north of the city, is lovely though the rainy season is not so great. Tampa is a nice city as is Atlanta. Don't know the rest but isn't it somewhat dependent upon what business you are in? You'd want to live somewhere that has the most opportunities for your business.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

If you like London life you might find it a culture shock in some of those places...and the nice/cosmopolitan areas will not be that cheap.

I agree you might want to narrow it down as to where is best for your business and then give a budget/max commute time and see what people who live in those areas can advise.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

If you want a lower cost of living that rules out SFO. After that if it was me Denver or Atlanta as they have direct flights back to the UK. Living where our local airport doesn't, I know what a pain that is becoming when people come for a visit etc.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I would suggest Denver. It's clean(ish), the people are more health-conscious than most other places, there are lots of outdoor activities (skiing, hiking), and it's quite cosmopolitan for a mid-sized city. The cost of living is also a lot lower than some of those other places. And being in the middle of the country with a large airport, you'd find it easy to travel around.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I'd pick Denver. Lovely place.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I am in Tampa, but Denver sounds nice! Tampa is about the size of Bristol. Close to beaches on the Gulf. Plenty of space and property. Not sure on pricing. Can't envision a one year old playing outside much- to hot 9 months a year/bugs/gators etc. Commute is 30-60mins virtually everywhere.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Hi, firstly i think your question is too broad for anybody on here to be able to give you some decent advice. San Fran which you loved apart from the fog, without trying to sound rude is neither here nor there.:)
And considering you havent visited any of the other states, you may get there and decide that you dont like it/them.

If you have only been to San Fran then it probably would make more sense to use that as a base or at least a start. Then for a better perspective (this is primarily an immigration forum) visit citydata.com where you will get a wealth of advice on things like schools and in particular school districts! believe it or not that does matter in the US, crime in the area that you want to move to, average rent in the area, average house prices, when and if you decide to buy. (you may like an area but later when you want to purchase a home there find that you cant afford to buy in the area you are renting in) all these kinds of things need to be researched or at least you need to do is scratch the surface. head over to City Data for more in depth advice. Good Luck:)

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Welcome to BE and good luck!

Might help if you said what kind of budget you had in mind.

What kind of stuff you like doing? If it's out doors stuff, you might get different suggestions as a place to live than as a holiday.

Don't say how old or how many kids you have either.

There's quite a few threads with info on the states those cities are in and also a few about those cities. From what I've read, the only one that wouldn't appeal personally would be Nashville for anything other than a holiday, then again I don't think I could cope with the humidity and heat of Atlanta/Tampa/Charlotte and the Bay area would be out on shear cost, leaving Denver.

Still, city-data.com is also a good site to check out.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I have visited Denver and it seems nice but much smaller than London. I think OP did say they wanted a change though. I'd go for Denver or SF if budget permits. Nashville also wouldn't suit me and I haven't been to the other places.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Er, a son who will be almost 1

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I missed that line, just caught the young family bit at the end :lol:

Garden space, lower cost of living and shorter commutes would rule out some of those cities straight off anyway, I'd have thought.

Unless shorter commutes just means time v distance and just living way out in the burbs as opposed to living in the actual city. Guess also depends if one wants to drive the morning commute or have other options too I suppose.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I've lived in Denver for the past 6 years and have zero complaints, in fact the wife and wouldn't really want to live anywhere in the U.S.

Let me know if you need/want any specifics.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Nashville is a great place for families, especially the Southern Suburbs. For the cost of a 2 bed apartment in London you would get a house of roughly 4000 sq feet in a nice neighborhood with a pool.
Commute time into downtown is approx 15-20 minutes in rush hour traffic, the area is incredibly green with lovely parks, there are several malls with high street and high end shops, hundreds of different restaurants to choose from and all the people I've met have been very welcoming.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I'm not being biased, but I would go with Denver every time. ;) It depends if you would rather be in the city or one of the suburbs. If you are going to be staying until your son is at least school age, there is quite a bit of data on the various school districts in the area.

The weather is good for most of the year, with sunny days for the most part, even in winter.

Will the company do a recce trip for you to any or all of the cities that are being thought about?

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Hi

It's really a broad question so as to help narrow down our answers, let's try to dig up some more information.

In general they recommend spending about 30-35% of your 'gross income' on housing expenses. Not to pry, but could you give us a monthly budget for housing. In some places, like San Francisco, people go a bit higher, even quite a bit higher, but in some places like Charlotte it might be quite easy.

Second, do you have any weather preference. Mixed seasons, hot, cold, snow, no snow. Any allergies to pollen (which can be heavy in some places).

Third, do you need easy access back to the UK via an international airport, or are your trips back going to be infrequent enough that you can one stop / two stop it if need be?

Fourth, do you really want to live in an 'urban' environment, i.e. in a city proper (hint: expensive as hell) or are you willing to live in a suburb near a major city, or would you prefer a rural or smaller city as an option?

There are a ton of other question but some of these answer might knock a few places off the list.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Although the SF bay area climate is near ideal (except SF), the whole of the bay area will cost you 2x or more for housing than any of the other cities. As a comparison, the average house in the bay area is probably over $750,000 which is 2 to 3 times or more as much as an equivalent house in any of the other cities on your list. A fairly nice house in the bay area is in the millions.

When you think of the bay area, think London as a comparison with very expensive in the heart of SF, Marin county (north of the golden gate bridge), Hillsbrough, Woodside, and other cities on the peninsula as well as some south bay cities, and certain cities in the east bay hills but nowhere is it inexpensive.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Nashville is my current home so I’ll make the pitch for it and some quick notes on other cities:

San Francisco: I don’t have anything to what’s already been said about San Francisco, excellent weather, great restaurants, ‘progressive’ city…the downside is the housing costs are astronomical and you do pay state income tax. It’s also a long flight to the UK so there is that to consider.

Nashville: My current home – I love Nashville. There are great things about Nashville, the climate is warm, and it’s usually sunny. The cost of living in Nashville is the lowest on the list – there are also no state income taxes. Nashville offers great affordable housing. Metro Nashville Public schools aren’t great but go to any of the surrounding counties and you’ll find the public schools there are excellent, or you can consider the benefits of private education in Davidson Co. There are lots of thing to do in the evening as far as entertainment goes – lots of bars and restaurants. Nashville has many professional sports teams, Tennessee Titans NFL team, Nashville Predators NHL team and a minor league baseball team. There is lots to do in Nashville outside, many public parks, golf courses ect. Nashville also has an international airport 8 miles from downtown – most flights to the UK connect in NYC but the trip from downtown to the airport isn’t taxing. Music City USA is also well catered for when it comes to fine arts, Nashville has a ballet company, along with Opera and Symphony which perform at the Schermerhorn Symphony Center – a truly amazing facility where I proposed to my wife! All in all I love Nashville, it’s a progressive city (that isn’t true much outside Nashville) great for young families.

Denver: I would live here if I didn’t love Nashville so much – nice climate during summer (snow in winter) healthy population, lots to do. Housing is a con (relatively expensive) and traffic can be a hassle (but will feel like a breeze compared to London).

Charlotte: A lot like Nashville in terms of climate, a bit bigger and more expensive. You do have to pay state income tax in North Carolina. Major international airport, most UK flights connect via NYC.

Tampa: Would be perfect for a young couple or for single – wouldn’t recommend for families. Schools are hohum and daycare is expensive. You do pay state income tax in Florida.

Atlanta: Don’t move to Atlanta, it’s expensive, sprawling hot backwards. I’d live anywhere on the list before Atlanta. There are a few nice places (Marietta) but you have to drive several miles to get to them from downtown and traffic is awful.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

The trouble with a thread like this is that everyone will have their own opinions on what the like or don't like about a place, and those opinions might be the complete opposite of yours. FWIW, I loved Nashville when I drove down to visit a friend there last Christmas and she loves living there. It'll be a hell of a shock coming from London, but that's true of just about anywhere.

My sister-in-law lives on the outskirts of Atlanta. I agree with tnzetasigep that it's hot as balls down there - oppresively so. She also claims to have a discovered a large Black Widow living in her mailbox so, you know, there's that (not that I think Atlanta is infested with Black Widows, but it's put me off visiting them for a while :lol:)

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

To be fair, there are things I don’t like about Nashville (that aren’t specific to the rest of the US).

Tennessee is a ‘Right to Work’ state. That means basically you can’t be fired for discriminatory reasons (age, sex, disability, religion, national origin, sexual orientation…) but you can be fired for any other reason and there is no official (state) recourse for the former employee. You can (in some cases, depending on why you were fired) go on unemployment but that’s it.

If you’re not religious you will meet people who are – and aren’t shy. The area has a lot of conservative people and it’s not uncommon to run across someone who shares their religious/political beliefs – sometimes unprompted.

Public schools aren’t great in Nashville/Davidson Co but there are private (pricy) alternatives available in the county – if you go to the surrounding counties you’ll find good public schools.

There aren’t a lot of problems in Tennessee that aren’t in other southern states (Florida, North Carolina and Georgia). That being said I’m not native to Nashville but my wife is and I love it here – warts and all!

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

FYI

Saw this in the paper this morning:

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120530/DAVIDSON/305300011/Nashville-International-Cup-brings-nations-together?odyssey=mod|newswell|text||p

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Just sort of FYI, that's not what "Right to Work" means in US employment law terminology. Think it's one of those terms that gets lost in translation between US and UK English. "Right to Work" means that you can take a job and opt NOT to pay Union dues if you don't want to join the labor unions. I think the term for what you are describing is commonly known as "Employment at will" or "At will employment" where you can be fired at anytime (though conversely, you can leave at any time). This is the law in basically every US state, though some exceptions in certain circumstances do exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law

A "right-to-work" law is a statute that prohibits union security agreements, or agreements between labor unions and employers that govern the extent to which an established union can require employees' membership, payment of union dues, or fees as a condition of employment, either before or after hiring.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

“any hiring is presumed to be "at will"; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals "for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all," and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work.”

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

They are everywhere in SoCal. They have more of a bad rep than they deserve, as they stick to dark places and their bite isn't that bad. The Brown Recluse we have in the MidWest is much more of a worry to me.

We had a BW living in our lawn sprinkler box, and every time I needed to alter the timings I would have to make sure to shoo him off to one side before putting my hand in there. I knew he was there and was glad of the bugs he ate. Really cool looking too.

I lived in the Bay Area for a year before moving to LA for 8 years. Spent 6 months in Walnut Creek in the Easy Bay and 6 months in Foster City on the Penninsula. Both were great places. East Bay was much hotter and was cheaper for rent and house prices. The Penninsula was better for commuting into SF for work and near the beaches.

SoCal has the weather that most Brits think about when they think CA.

All in all, th SF Bay area was a great introduction to living in the US. People were friendly and the cosmopolitan atmosphere was great for a noob like me. I still look back at that 1st year in the US with wonderment and fond memories.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Personally I would choose Denver or Charlotte.

The only place I have not been to on the list is Nashville, so do not have an opinion on Nashville.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Yeah I had a Black Widow in my mailbox too.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I totally agree with JSL8610 - it's so personal.

Here's my tuppenceworth:

Heat: If you choose an area with hot summers, and hope to use public transport, you might have to carry a change of clothes to the office. During my summers in DC my shirt was sopping wet by the time I got to my cubicle (yuk.)

Leaving London: I spent three years in a beautiful, leafy part of DC. I was climbing the walls because I had come from 7 years in London and really missed the infinite variety of restaurants, bars and shopping experiences. Schelpping to and from from Pentagon City Mall got really old. The subway is great though. The culture shock was pretty intense.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I nearly lived in Charlotte a few years ago (proposed to by then boyfriend). I spent a considerable time there and was petrified of moving there permanently from London (so I chose a new boyfriend, now husband and live in the Bay Area, but that's not the point).

I found Charlotte to be really quite 'small', particularly coming from a large urban city. It was super friendly, and quite commutable. Weather was stinking hot in summer but manageable most of the rest of the year. Drive to the coast was nice and beaches there were great. We also used to drive to go boating on some of the lakes north of Charlotte and often drive to go hiking an hour or so north of the city. So plenty of activities (although Bay Area wins hands down in comparison).

The first time I went to downtown Charlotte, I was looking for somewhere to park. I drove to the city and started looking around for a spot, and before I knew it, I had driven out the other side of the city and had to turn round and drive more slowly! I remember thinking how small it was. if thats what you're looking for, then Charlotte could be great.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I would disagree with both of the bolded points, not so much because they are false statements but simply because the same could be said for almost any city! You are going to get rush hour traffic no matter where you live if you work within the city and also there are always going to be expensive and cheaper neighborhoods for housings. It is just one of the cons of living in any city.

However, the one thing that I like about Denver is that the light-rail system is superb, very timely and very in-expensive. So if you work downtown or near the DTC (Denver Tech Center) then the light-rail is a very viable option with its multiple park n rides.

There are certainly expensive neighborhoods in Denver (Wash Park, Cherry Creek, Observatory Park etc), but there are also more affordable neighborhoods such as Platt Park, Englewood & Capitol Hill-- none of these areas are more than a 15-20min commute to downtown and they all avoid the traffic jams on the I-25.

I think Denver is also excellent for children and adults with things to do year round: hiking, camping, fishing, boating (lakes), rafting, snowshoeing, skiing-- the list is pretty endless and if you live in or near the city then you are only 30min-45min away from all the mountain fun. Sporting events are also great (Rockies, Broncos, Nuggets & the Avs, as well as four collegiate teams (CU, CSU, DU & Air Force).

There is also a theme and water park right downtown as well as the usual restaurants, bars and a few nice piano bars if you are into that kind of thing. One of my other favorite things is Red Rocks--- nothing quite like catching an out-door concert in the middle of summer. :thumbsup:

Other misc things: the climate is 4-seasons (70s-90s) most of the summer, winters in the city can be fairly cold and snowy, however there are many blue-bird days also. Spring can still hold a chance of snow and rain, but this year we have been in the 70s since about late Feb and March. Denver (well Aurora) also has an international airport with direct flights to London Heathrow if that is important.

I guess it would be helpful if you posted some more information regarding your budget and what things are important to you in helping to make you decision.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

FYI, as far as Denver goes, I find the high altitude plays hell with me. I found it very dehydrating and uncomfortable. You might be advised to visit before making a final decision to see if you or anyone in your family has similar discomforts.

Can't speak at all to anywhere else you list; I can only speak to north Texas.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

It does take a good 3-4 days, sometimes more to get used to the altitude. You have to drink lots of water to try and help counteract it, although you might also get a headache with being dehydrated at this altitude.

There are very few bugs up here to bother you which is a big plus in my book.

Denver is not as big or as busy as London, but much cleaner, although I haven't been to London for a number of years. The infrastructure, roads and bridge maintenance people seem to be on the ball for the most part. Yes, you do get some potholes after a hard, frosty winter, but they are dealt with pretty quickly.

The western line of the light rail will be opening next year and it goes to Golden (government center) not the center of town, which will make it easier to get into the city from some of the western suburbs.

In a nutshell, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, even back to the UK.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

The altitude in Denver is such that you don't feel the heat or cold very much. Makes it feel like a much more consistent temperature throughout the year.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I never spent more than a few days there at a time, so perhaps I would've eventually acclimated. Denver is beautiful but too cold for my taste.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I'd pick Denver, with SF 2nd.

SF bumped to 2nd purely because the housing situation can be ridiculous. Otherwise it's fantastic.

If your company has an office in Seattle, I'd seriously give that a shot. The best city I've lived in here for sure.

Also a lot of people seem to like San Diego.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

I live in Colorado, about half an hour's drive from Denver. It's a great state, really nice climate - 300 days or so of sunshine but not humid. It can be below freezing in the winer yet you can still go out without a jacket. Cold in the winter, warm in the summer, spectacular afternoon thunderstorms around June, a proper autumn. If you're remotely outdoorsy the mountains are on the doorstep. Can't comment on housing costs within the city but the surrounding areas are pretty affordable and you can get a lot of space for your money. The lifestyle is pretty relaxed, and the winter sports are top notch.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Hi, I rarely post, but thought I would stick in my tuppenceworth.
I haven't been to any of the places listed, but DH and myself seriously looked at moving to Denver. I know a few people (via internet) who live in that area and it sounds lovely.
FWIW I have four very young children (3 and a half years, 2 year old twins and a four month.... cable is exepnsive, ya know?) and as a SAHM with the kids in Northern Virginia I find the heat, the humidity and the insects etc very difficult to deal with. I like to be outside with the kids, but it can be prohibitively hot in the South (does NoVA count as the South?)

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Thanks for all the replies, that certainly helps me figure out where to start!

There definitely seems to be a case for Denver, so that helps narrow down the choices somewhat. I still like the idea of SF, but given all the feedback (and consideration for the grandparents) I'm figuring we can always visit there ourselves. Charlotte is rated as a good office to work in and likely to be an easy switch, so I think that's currently my top 3 now.

A number of you have suggested it would be helpful to know more about budget and specifics - truth is, I don't know exactly what my wage & position might be after moving (depends on office), so I haven't got even a rough budget in mind yet. I know we don't want to increase our accommodation outgoings much regardless, so prob looking at between $1300 - $1800 a month in rent. Things we like are some culture, outdoor activities (e.g. hiking), good food etc - so from I gather Denver fits well.

Will keep you posted with how we get on and I expect I'll be back with more questions when we've moved things on a touch. Thanks so much for all your help so far!

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

That budget would realistically blow SF off your list then.

Re: Looking to move to US - advice on location needed
 

Denver is very do-able on that budget, it just depends what you are looking for in a house-- size, bedrooms etc.

We only pay $1,375 and live in the Wash Park neighborhood-- commute to downtown takes 15-20min and if you don't want to drive then the light-rail can get you there in about 10min. So you are close enough to the city to enjoy all that a city has to offer, but far enough away that you don't need to live in the middle of it all.

I would take a look at the Wash Park, Platt Park and Highland neighborhoods if you consider Denver. Not sure what your living situation is, but if you don't mind apartment living then Capitol Hill is also a great place with a fun nightlife and walkable to downtown.

Just avoid the place around five-points/Cole/Whitter areas IMHO.

Other areas: Baker (not too bad, few iffy spots but great nightlife), Cheeseman Park (apartments), Congress Park & Park Hill are also worth a mention.