qwerty007

I want to set up a Living (revocable) Trust as opposed to a Will to avoid probate, but have some assets overseas. I cannot find any expertise that knows if or how this can be done. Has anyone had a experience of this?

Manc

what state are you in?

qwerty007

I'm in California

Lynne

Your Bank may be able to give you the name of a lawyer who specializes in Living Trusts. The firm I work for have an attorney that does just that, which is no use to you since I am in Alabama. lololol You may also want to check and see if your local library has the latest edition of Martindale Hubball. They are directories listing all attorneys in each State and what they specialize in. I am not sure if this is available online.

If you cannot find it, PM me with what city you are in and I will check on Tuesday when I go back to work and email you a list of attorneys in your area that deal in that field.

Bob

check online - http://www.martindale.com/

Lynne

Thanks Bob, this is a very good resource for finding an attorney.

qwerty007

Thanks for the link and I will have a good look at it.

I was recommended a lawyer by my Bank, but because of the international angle she wasn't able to answer to question herself, so asked a so-called specialist colleague, and I found myself being pushed down the usual path of expensive and complex solutions. There must be US residents and citizens with assets in the UK or wherever who have living trusts. The UK and US are both common law countries, and recognise the use of trusts, but revocable trusts (US) are not used for assets protection whereas "offshore trusts" (UK) are, so whenever you ask someone for a trust to cover non US based assets ie offshore, they automatically assume you want asset protection. My hunch is that as long as one is still UK domiciled, assets in the UK will be subject to UK IHT regardless of whether you are US resident and have a US Living Trust. Placing assets in a traditional offshore centre may get round the UK IHT but you are still faced with whether that centre will a) allow US residents to open an account and b) whether it will recognise a US Living Trust. Very few people seem to know the answer or want to charge you a lot of money for an unsuitable solution.

Lynne

Trusts are not my specialty, but I do know that a Will made in the UK will not cover assets in the US and vice versa. We still have assets in the UK so when we came here and started accumulating assets we had to make a Will here to cover them. This is just a rough guess, but you may have to do the same with a Living Trust. As for tax implications on UK property I am not sure whether being non resident for tax purposes covers IHT or whether it is just income tax. When we sold assets in the UK we were exempt from paying CGT. You may want to talk to an attorney in the UK. Fortunately with my having worked for lawyers on both sides of the pond advice is free, it may be that to get it done right on both sides you may have to bite the bullet and shell out money just for peace of mind.

What is your status, visa, GC or USC??

qwerty007

I am an legal resident alien or green card holder. Yes you are right a will in both countries is advisable. Like you I escape CGT but unfortunately not all income tax in the UK. The problem is with UK domicility. However, it is possible to shed that and thereby mitigate against IHT liability but I haven't looked that far down the line. For example, how easy it would be to move back to the UK having effectively abandoned UK citizenship. However, for as long as one is UK domiciled (ie you were born there) and have assets there, a US Living Trust, which is essential Estate Planning because it avoids probate, you will come into conflict with UK IHT. I guess one can reduce one's asset base to the UK IHT allowance, or move assets "offshore". But then we're into a new set of problems.

I moved back to France not long ago for a short while and paid heavily for very poor advise. The problem with cross border advise is finding someone who is familair with both jurisdictions, and who isn't selling on financial products. Offshore Trusts are almost completely useless, unless you are exposed to US litigation, and it is almost a cert that this is what I would be advised to do by an international trust lawyer. They are expensive to set up, administer, and you lose ownership ie control over your assets. Also I don't know if they would avoid probate in the US. Since offshore advisors are probably shielded to some extent from foreign regulations it seems very open to mis-selling.

What has struck me is the limited choice for US residents. Many foreign banks will not open an account for a US resident. Those that will, only take instructions as long as you are not on US soil, and the choice of products is limited. This is all thanks to Unce Sam's policy and change in regulations. What bugs me is the the US dictates policy in Europe, which has become totally paranoid, while in the US everybody seems relaxed. Something not right there.

It's going to be a case of doing my homework, and if anyone in a similar predicament wants to hook up we can share notes.