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Learner Permit

Learner Permit

Old Mar 13th 2014, 3:23 am
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Default Learner Permit

Hi Everyone,

I've been on the US or a few months now after arriving on a K-1 visa.

A few weeks ago I got my New York State learner permit. For some reason, the DMV took the date they write on the visa page of my passport - the date you have to get married by - as the an expiration date for my permit.

As a result, while my learner permit is good until 2018, it says I'm a temporary visitor, which expires on at the end of March 2014.

I've just been advised that this may affect me being able to take my full driving test.

Does anyone have any experience of sorting this out? Is another soul-destroying trip to the poorly informed DMV office required?
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 10:37 am
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Default Re: Learner Permit

They aren't poorly informed - until you have your Green Card your license will only be valid until the end of your status (and a K1 IS temporary). This is common throughout the 50 states.

When you have your GC - it's off down to the DMV again.
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 11:21 am
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Default Re: Learner Permit

Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
...... until you have your Green Card your license will only be valid until the end of your status (and a K1 IS temporary). ....
This is correct. It is commonly experienced with longer dated visas, such as H1-A and L1-A, but applies to all visas with an expiry date.

Last edited by Pulaski; Mar 13th 2014 at 11:24 am.
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 12:15 pm
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Default Re: Learner Permit

Originally Posted by visa_Teaser View Post
For some reason...
This is normal... in fact, this is all they are allowed to do. Why? Because when your status as a K-1 beneficiary dies... the permit dies with your status.


I've just been advised that this may affect me being able to take my full driving test.
It might, yes.


Does anyone have any experience of sorting this out?
It usually gets sorted out once you have an EAD or, even better, your green card.


Is another soul-destroying trip to the poorly informed DMV office required?
They aren't poorly informed - you are! You failed to do the requisite research prior to moving to the US. That said, you will need to return to the DMV once you have proof of your continuing status in the US.

Ian

Last edited by ian-mstm; Mar 13th 2014 at 12:20 pm.
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 1:39 pm
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Default Re: Learner Permit

Many thanks for your responses.

When applying for a learner permit under a K-1 visa, in New York State at least, you have to provide your marriage certificate. They won't accept just the I-94 and K-1 visa.

My understanding is that once I married, the K-1 became obsolete and the date marked on my passport no longer applied. This is why I was unsure why they still marked that date on my learner permit.

With this in mind, the k-1 and I-94 can only be used to prove I'm in the country legally, and as a form of official identification. After that I would have thought you move on to the residency requirements of New York State, which are:

Section 250 (5) of the NYS Vehicle and Traffic Law says:

"As used in this section, the term "resident" shall mean domiciliary, that is, one who lives in this state with the intention of making it a fixed and permanent abode. It shall be presumptive evidence that a person who maintains a place of abode in this state for a period of at least ninety days is a resident of this state."

Otherwise it's pointless applying for a learner permit unless you can achieve getting married, getting your marriage certificate, obtaining a SSN, opening a bank account and having a credit card (all required as forms of ID), taking the 5 hour pre-licencing course and booking the driving test (normally a 4 to 6 week booking period) all within 90 days.

Excluding the lifestyle benefits of being allowed to drive on my own, it would be very beneficial to my employment prospects if I had the full licence in hand for when the EAD eventually arrives.
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 1:59 pm
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Default Re: Learner Permit

Originally Posted by visa_Teaser View Post
Many thanks for your responses.

When applying for a learner permit under a K-1 visa, in New York State at least, you have to provide your marriage certificate. They won't accept just the I-94 and K-1 visa.

My understanding is that once I married, the K-1 became obsolete and the date marked on my passport no longer applied. This is why I was unsure why they still marked that date on my learner permit.

With this in mind, the k-1 and I-94 can only be used to prove I'm in the country legally, and as a form of official identification. After that I would have thought you move on to the residency requirements of New York State, which are:

Section 250 (5) of the NYS Vehicle and Traffic Law says:

"As used in this section, the term "resident" shall mean domiciliary, that is, one who lives in this state with the intention of making it a fixed and permanent abode. It shall be presumptive evidence that a person who maintains a place of abode in this state for a period of at least ninety days is a resident of this state."

Otherwise it's pointless applying for a learner permit unless you can achieve getting married, getting your marriage certificate, obtaining a SSN, opening a bank account and having a credit card (all required as forms of ID), taking the 5 hour pre-licencing course and booking the driving test (normally a 4 to 6 week booking period) all within 90 days.

Excluding the lifestyle benefits of being allowed to drive on my own, it would be very beneficial to my employment prospects if I had the full licence in hand for when the EAD eventually arrives.
But there is still the slightly more than theoretical possibility that you could be denied adjustment of status and deported. If that wasn't the case you'd just wander down to the nearest USCIS office with your marriage certificate and they'd hand you a green card. It is not the DMV's job to second guess what the USCIS is going to decide, they just go with what the the USCIS documentation says.

Personally, I would drive (carefully) on my UK licence until I get my US license, and that is what I did when I first came over, and lived in NY. So long as you can show that you have your license application in process, it is highly unlikely that the police would be in the least bit concerned, so long as (i) you have A license, (ii) you are working on getting a NY license, and (iii) you don't piss off the officer with a smart-arse attitude.

Last edited by Pulaski; Mar 13th 2014 at 2:05 pm.
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 2:21 pm
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Default Re: Learner Permit

I just called the DMV and they basically confirmed that.

They require an official document with a date on it. Which will be my EAD. It's frustrating, but is logical.

One of the reasons I got a learner permit was that I was concerned about driving on a UK licence after 30 days. Although combining out-of-state and foreign driving licence in the same section, their guidelines say that you have to get a NYS state licence within 30 days of becoming a resident. As they use a 90 day rule to prove residency, it's unclear if this 30 days can be used after your 90 days (giving you 120 days on a UK licence), or you only get 30 days beyond your intention to become a resident. I was conservative and assumed the latter case, dated from my arrival in NY.

As a note of interest - the insurance company Geico, fully accepted my UK driving licence and the fact that I'd been driving for 15 years. As a named driver, it actually lowered my wife's future insurance cost.
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 3:27 pm
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Default Re: Learner Permit

Originally Posted by visa_Teaser View Post
I just called the DMV and they basically confirmed that.

They require an official document with a date on it. Which will be my EAD. It's frustrating, but is logical.
This is exactly what happened to my fiance/husband after he arrived on a K-1 visa (Arizona). He didn't get a drivers license, but a State ID, which had the same effect:

First one was valid until the expiration of his I-94.
Second one was valid until the expiration of his K-1 visa (because he hadn't yet received his EAD to come up with a new expiration date).
Third one was valid until the EAD expiration date.
Fourth one was valid until the 2-year Green Card expiration date.
Fifth one was valid until the 10-year Green Card expiration date.
Sixth and Final one is valid forever, now that he's a USC.

It was many trips to DMV, but that's life.

Rene
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 3:36 pm
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Default Re: Learner Permit

While unfortunate that you had so many trips to the DMV, it does make me feel a lot better about my situation. I guess everyone has to go through it, but you feel pretty isolated sometimes.

Thanks Rene!
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 4:26 pm
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Default Re: Learner Permit

It took me 11 months and 25 visits to 4 different DMV offices in 2 states and the intervention of the SC senators office to get my licence. It totally took me by surprise when the lady said okay - let's get your photo done.
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 10:12 pm
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Default Re: Learner Permit

I have a question regarding residency,
If while you are in the US on a K1 you, in theory are only a visitor as there is always the possibility that you find yourselves within the 90 day window incompatible and there is no marriage. Only after marriage are you entitled to become a resident by filing the necessary paperwork.
Or am looking at this too logically?
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 10:25 pm
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Default Re: Learner Permit

No vimto, that's spot on.
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 11:12 pm
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Default Re: Learner Permit

Originally Posted by Vimto View Post
I have a question regarding residency,
If while you are in the US on a K1 you, in theory are only a visitor as there is always the possibility that you find yourselves within the 90 day window incompatible and there is no marriage. Only after marriage are you entitled to become a resident by filing the necessary paperwork.
Or am looking at this too logically?
In theory you are somewhat like a visitor, although your official status is not "visitor".

It's only after marriage to the petitioning USC that you are entitled to THEN apply for permanent residency (filing Adjustment of Status or AOS). Once you file AOS, then you are entitled to remain in the USA until a decision is made on your AOS application.

Rene
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Old Mar 13th 2014, 11:21 pm
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Default Re: Learner Permit

Originally Posted by Noorah101 View Post
In theory you are somewhat like a visitor, although your official status is not "visitor". ...
And unsurprisingly, Federal immigration laws are inconsistent with the states' driver licensing laws.
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