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Keeping Fingerprint Information

Keeping Fingerprint Information

Old Apr 18th 2008, 1:57 pm
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Default Keeping Fingerprint Information

Hi Folks,

I've been in the US now for about 16 years. I was here on a J1 originally, then a green card. I obtained my citizenship about 4 years ago and hold both US and UK passports.

But my question is about fingerprinting and if those fingerprints are kept on file. It would be unconstitutional for the government to keep fingerprints of it's citizens if they are no security risk and have not committed a crime. Now, as a citizen with no criminal record, never been arrested etc, can I request that my fingerprint records are removed?

It's not that I plan on being arrested any time soon, I just don't like the big brother aspect.

Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions.
Rob.
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 2:21 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

Originally Posted by 1skydive View Post

It would be unconstitutional for the government to keep fingerprints of it's citizens if they are no security risk and have not committed a crime. Now, as a citizen with no criminal record, never been arrested etc, can I request that my fingerprint records are removed?.
Hi:

Why do you say its unconstitutional? That is often a flip comment on something that offends someone -- an analysis is needed.

BTW, a friend of mine had to establish a the physical presence of a client's grandfather in the United States back in the 1930's. Inasmuch as Grandpa had served a long sentence in Federal Prison -- should be easy, no? It wasn't -- the records had been destroyed!
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 2:25 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

Originally Posted by 1skydive View Post
Now, as a citizen with no criminal record, never been arrested etc, can I request that my fingerprint records are removed?
I suspect you can request anything you like. Is the government under any obligation to grant your request? I have no idea. It does sound like a great way to call attention to yourself, though.
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 2:51 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

Originally Posted by Folinskyinla View Post
Hi:

Why do you say its unconstitutional? That is often a flip comment on something that offends someone -- an analysis is needed.
I do not mean to offend with my question and I don't fully understand why you say it would offend. However I do believe that the keeping of personal biometric data for the sole purpose of identifying a person, for no valid reason, yes, I do believe it be unconstitutional.

If the govt said "Hey, we're gonna put rfid chips in everyone" People would refuse and say it's unconstitutional. Semantics aside, they are similar situations.

It's not like I am going to freak out if they keep my fingerprints. But as the big-brother debate seems to becoming more and more important; as our civil liberties are slowly eroding, it was just a concern that crossed my mind.

I apologize if I have offended.
Rob.
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 2:53 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

Originally Posted by Bill_S View Post
I suspect you can request anything you like. Is the government under any obligation to grant your request? I have no idea. It does sound like a great way to call attention to yourself, though.
You re probably right. I've researched this a little and I haven't managed to find anyone else that may have done this. Which is why I asked the question.

If it hasn't been done before, it's unlikely I will be the first.
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 3:13 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

When you renew your pasports, you will now need a new biometric passport (not sure about the US one, but certainly your UK one and I believe the US passports will become biometric soon if they haven't already) which will have your biometrics stored in a chip embedded in the passport cover...

So one way or another, your biometrics will be stored by the government...

I appreciate what you're saying... It's scary how much data "they" have on us, but I guess I have always seen it quite simply... nothing to hide, nothing to worry about (not that I'm suggesting you have something to hide! )

The biggest worry is what if the data falls into the wrong hands...
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 3:17 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

Originally Posted by robnewman View Post
to worry about (not that I'm suggesting you have something to hide! )

The biggest worry is what if the data falls into the wrong hands...
Credit card company know more about you than any goverment will ...
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 3:19 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

now that I can believe...
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 3:19 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

Originally Posted by 1skydive View Post
However I do believe that the keeping of personal biometric data for the sole purpose of identifying a person, for no valid reason, yes, I do believe it be unconstitutional.
Which part of the Constitution do you believe it breaks?
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

As my dear old mum used to say... if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 4:44 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

Originally Posted by Ash UK/US View Post
As my dear old mum used to say... if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.
If government (and anyone else who might have access to the information that some of us would prefer to keep private) was always totally benevolent that might almost be true, but sadly it isn't.
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 4:50 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

Originally Posted by Ray View Post
Credit card company know more about you than any goverment will ...
well , since the uk government are losing discs full of data on a regular basis , youre probobly right !!!

problem is , the finance institutions seem intent on having so lax security that the criminals have a lot of their data !!!

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Old Apr 18th 2008, 5:36 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

Originally Posted by md95065 View Post
If government (and anyone else who might have access to the information that some of us would prefer to keep private) was always totally benevolent that might almost be true, but sadly it isn't.
To be honest I worry more about my SSN number & credit card info.
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 6:20 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

Originally Posted by 1skydive View Post
I do not mean to offend with my question and I don't fully understand why you say it would offend. However I do believe that the keeping of personal biometric data for the sole purpose of identifying a person, for no valid reason, yes, I do believe it be unconstitutional.

If the govt said "Hey, we're gonna put rfid chips in everyone" People would refuse and say it's unconstitutional. Semantics aside, they are similar situations.
Tell me where in the constitution it says that this cannot be done?

It's not like I am going to freak out if they keep my fingerprints. But as the big-brother debate seems to becoming more and more important; as our civil liberties are slowly eroding, it was just a concern that crossed my mind.

I apologize if I have offended.
Rob.
Yes, you are freaking out. What else would you call it. As for your FP, that is not all the government knows about you. They know your age, health, credit history, school data, marriage and divorce record(s), number of children you have, etc.

What does FP have to do with civil liberties. That is one argument I could never understand. Your civil liberties might interfer with mine, therefore, I don't think you should have any
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Old Apr 18th 2008, 6:26 pm
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Default Re: Keeping Fingerprint Information

Originally Posted by fatbrit View Post
Which part of the Constitution do you believe it breaks?
Well, I cannot tell you exactly which part of the constitution. However, we have privacy rights, constitutionally protected, and this, in my opinion, is breaking my rights to privacy. I should have the same privacy rights as any other American.

Take a couple of minutes to Google for "unconstitutional biometrics" and you will find that I am not alone with this thought.

And to answer some of the other comments about "if you have nothing to hide...". Well, my mum used to say that too. It's like saying, "It's ok for the government to listen to our phone calls, as long as we don't find out about it" or "It's ok if the FBI agent sits outside our house with a listening device if you have nothing to hide". Having nothing to hide is basically irrelevant.

But just to get back to my original question. I was just trying to find out if in fact, once all the background checks were complete, are the fingerprints kept on file. I'm guessing probably so. But why do they need to keep them?

I don't want this to become a "heavy' subject. I guess talking about privacy rights tends to invoke responses.
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