ITIN process for children
 

Hello

I need to request an ITIN for my children, in order to add them as dependents on my tax return.

I read many articles about the process to get an ITIN (W-7 form), but am still confused...

My understanding was that the W-7 form needed to be sent at the same time as the tax return, before April 15.

- Was that also your experience when requesting ITINs for your kids?

- If that's the case, what happens if you want to do the in-person documentation verification process in one of the IRS centers : Do they just check the documentation and give you back a "stamped" form that you sent with your return? Or do they expect you to come with the return when you come to verify the W-7 form?

Thanks in advance, I am trying to time this right to be in time for April!

Re: ITIN process for children
 

We just submitted the forms with our tax return, I think we supplied notarized copies of the identity documents to go with it.

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Notarized isn't good enough anymore (since about June of last year). You can either send originals or get the issuing authority to certify the document. As KPMG messed up my submission, I had to go to the consulate in Houston in order to get mini-Weeze's passport certified as authentic. That's because I didn't want the passport to be gone for 8+ weeks.

Re: ITIN process for children
 

You can still use a certifying acceptance agent. Don't forget that ITINs now expire after 5 years.

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Hi everyone

My questions were more about the application process itself. Has anyone tried to go to one of the IRS centers to have their documents checked in person while submitting their W7 forms?

This is a new process to avoid being out of a passport for 8 weeks and it does not require an acceptance agent or a certified copy. But I am not sure how it works: Do you still need to come with your tax return at the time? or do you get some kind of "approval paper" that you can join when you send your W7 and tax return later by mail.

Thanks

Re: ITIN process for children
 

I haven't tried it, but it seems like if you use a TAC you don't part with your documents:

Are there any alternative options for me if I do not want to mail the original documents I have such as my passport?
In lieu of sending original documentation, applicants will have the option to use a CAA, designated TAC locations and the IRS Tax Attaché at the U.S. embassies in Beijing, Frankfurt, London, or Paris. This is limited to primary and secondary applicants. Applications for dependents will still require that originals or certified copies from the issuing agency be mailed to IRS.

from http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/2013-...sked-Questions (other useful new info on that page)

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Why? Children in a non-immigrant category cannot be claimed as dependents, unless the tax treaty covers them (which I think is only Canada, Mexico and South Korea). There's no point to getting them ITINs.

Read page 16: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040.pdf

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Yes they are covered - I phoned the IRS and talked to H&R Block at great length - Schedule 8812 covers dependents on an ITIN, they must meet the substantial presence test to qualify.

Re: ITIN process for children
 

I went to an "IRS Center" last year as it was my first tax return and I needed ITINs for my dependents. I sat and waited for 1.5 hours and my deli ticket was called - took about 5 minutes for them to certify the original birth certificates, I-94s/Passports and they took my tax return and associated documents + W-7s, mailed it off for me.

I then received my ENORMOUS refund due to my completely misunderstanding the W-4 and it included the full exemptions for dependents and child care costs etc.

This year I have the ITINs so have the luxury of e-filing - which I will do as soon as H&R Block let me due to some forms not being ready...

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Steve, there is a difference between the term "resident alien" when used for immigration purposes and when used for tax purposes. A US resident alien for tax purposes has to fulfil the green card test OR the substantial presence test (must be present approx one month in current year and six months in the prior three years, see http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Inter...-Presence-Test). A child living with you all year would fulfil the substantial presence test even if they were here under a non-immigrant visa.

Re: ITIN process for children
 

I've been using Pete Newton to file my US taxes since we arrived and we declare our 4 kids on the forms. But in our first year (October entry) they were not counted/allowed and so we only applied for their ITINs in the following year.

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Weeze, where is that, please? My husband might need to do that on his next visit to Houston. The "issuing authority" (the passport agency in the UK) says they just won't certify passports.

Edit: On second thought no, he's not returning till May. :(

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Addy, that's because they wouldn't have fulfilled the substantial presence test in their first year if you only arrived in the US in October. In the years after that they would have fulfilled the test if they lived with you, even if they didn't have greencards yet.

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Unless you didn't have any US tax liability, I don't understand why your children were not included. Even if you filed as a non resident alien (form 1040 NR), I don't see any restrictions about including your children as long as they lived with you for half of the year.

If there were US taxes owed, you may want to fill in a 1040 NR with the children as dependents to see if there is any tax savings and if so, file an amended return (you have 3 years to amend your return). However since you arrived in October, the tax savings may possibly be minimal.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040nr.pdf

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040nr.pdf

Re: ITIN process for children
 

A person can also request to be a US tax payer, whether resident or nonresident, whether or not they fulfill the green card test or the substantial presence test.

As Steve correctly points out, there's no point to having a child dependent do that. For that reason, my wife requested to become a nonresident tax payer while waiting for the I-130 to be approved but my stepson did not.

Regards, JEff

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Why would you not take the dependency exemption for a child ($3900 of tax exempt income per child) if you qualified for it?

Re: ITIN process for children
 

One would take it if they qualified for it. "if" being the operative word.

A dependent child is not the same thing as a spouse with whom one can chose to file a joint tax return. The spouse is a joint filer, not a dependent.

Regards, JEff

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Interesting, Pete originally included them but then removed them as he said they were not allowed as dependents on the 1040NR. The tax refund difference was significant. That was for 2010. I'll ask Pete again if that was the correct thing to do?

Re: ITIN process for children
 

June Everett, the Pro-Consul at 1000 Louisiana St, Suite 1900. You have to book an appointment. Take both passports along (i.e. child + parent).

She was very nice and helpful.

Re: ITIN process for children
 

The instructions don't appear to say anything that would indicate that your dependents aren't allowed to be claimed.

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Please clarify your post - which instructions are "the" instructions?

From the instructions for Form 1040NR:
This may not be the applicable instructions in this case, but if for AL's the first tax year in the USA the children did not meet either the green card test or the substantial presence test then they would not have been residents of the US for tax purposes?

Regards, JEff

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Initially when I looked at that, I assumed the instructions were referring to a dependent that wasn't living in the US but had exceptions for some countries. Now that I again look at that, I'm not sure. I originally assumed that the instructions would have referred to the "substantial presence test" for the dependent if that is how they defined a resident in this case since form 1040 refers to the "substantial presence test" of the dependent in order to be eligible for child tax credits but not as a dependent.

So are the children residents of the US or do they need to meet the "substantial presence test" to be considered residents on form 1040 NR? It doesn't appear that on form 1040, they need to meet the "substantial presence test" to be considered residents and therefore dependents.

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Thanks, that seems to confirm what I was thinking : There is no point in going to the IRS Tax Center now, I should probably wait to have all my documents to fill the taxes (like the 1099 forms you get from your bank), have the tax return document prepared, and then go to the tax center and fill the W7 for the kids and certify the required passports at the same time as handing the tax return.

Re: ITIN process for children
 

About the other discussion from this thread (about whether or not you can have children as dependent the first year or not):

I was in the same situation: First year I filed as Non Resident Alien (NRA) because we did not meet the substantial presence test, and I was not allowed to add the kids as dependents that year (I do not remember the details where this came from, I just know that they were not added). So it's really this year that I try to add the kids as dependents, now that we meet the test and that we file as resident aliens (even without a green card).

I actually discovered the ITIN requirements when trying to e-file : the system didn't want to process the draft of the tax return, because no SSN or ITIM was specified for the dependents.

As a resident alien, you can claim the same dependents as a US citizen.

Hope this helps

Re: ITIN process for children
 

After doing more researching on the IRS web site, that appears to be the case that you can't claim dependents (except from certain countries) when filing from 1040 NR.

Re: ITIN process for children
 

Er... can't be bothered to read the whole thread through but anyway it depends on your own filing status, which is why I linked to the 1040 instructions.

Read IRS publication 519 for more details (if it is your first year in the US you generally will file dual-status - unless you arrived on January 1st).

If you're filing on 1040NR you can only claim for the dependents if you are a tax resident of Canada, Mexico or South Korea. However you don't even need to use 1040NR if you are a tax resident of those countries because of the non-discrimination clause in the tax treaty. Generally recommended to use 1040NR though because using 1040 and filing an 8833 with it to claim non-discrimination causes confusion. Which is why 1040NR has special boxes on it under "filing status".

Anyway...

This is the relevant telephone number for the IRS international tax "hotline" - 267-941-1000

Back in ye olde days when they gave seminars on how to do stuff like the W-7 and 1040NR they used to expressly warn people not to listen to advice on the regular IRS helplines but to call that number for the helpline in PA.

Also note there is a lot of hoopla about the "substantial presence test" but in reality it doesn't mean a whole fat lot because (a) if you want to (which you will if you're planning on staying in the US for any length of time) you can be a tax resident on day 1 and (b) if you DON'T want to, you can always claim a closer connection to your home country on Form 8840, which basically sets the "test" to 183 days. Or in some cases (c) depending on what the tax treaty says you can be non-resident for longer than that, or if you're a foreign student or patient (using form 8843).