Pat Sinclair

Folks, travelling on Advance Parole can be bad for your health, this was
issued just a several days ago:


November 14, 2002

INS Issues Foreign Travel Advisory for Aliens
With Pending Immigration Applications

The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) reminds aliens who have
applied to adjust status to that of permanent resident that they must obtain
Advance Parole (Form I-131-- Application for Travel Document) from the INS
before traveling abroad. Travel outside of the United States may have severe
consequences for certain aliens who are in the process of adjusting their
status. Such aliens may be unable to return to the United States, their
applications may be denied, or both.

Under the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of
1996, aliens who depart the United States after being unlawfully present in
the United States for certain periods can be barred from admission to lawful
permanent resident status, even if they have obtained Advance Parole. Those
aliens who have been unlawfully present in the United States for more than
180 days, but less than one year are inadmissible for three years; those who
have been unlawfully present for a year or more are inadmissible for 10
years. Aliens who are unlawfully present, depart the U.S. and subsequently
reenter under a grant of parole, may nevertheless be ineligible to adjust
their status.

Mrs_blackross

"Pat Sinclair" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Folks, travelling on Advance Parole can be bad for your health, this was
    > issued just a several days ago:
    > November 14, 2002
    > INS Issues Foreign Travel Advisory for Aliens
    > With Pending Immigration Applications
    > The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) reminds aliens who have
    > applied to adjust status to that of permanent resident that they must
obtain
    > Advance Parole (Form I-131-- Application for Travel Document) from the INS
    > before traveling abroad. Travel outside of the United States may have
severe
    > consequences for certain aliens who are in the process of adjusting their
    > status. Such aliens may be unable to return to the United States, their
    > applications may be denied, or both.
    > Under the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of
    > 1996, aliens who depart the United States after being unlawfully present
in
    > the United States for certain periods can be barred from admission to
lawful
    > permanent resident status, even if they have obtained Advance Parole.
Those
    > aliens who have been unlawfully present in the United States for more than
    > 180 days, but less than one year are inadmissible for three years; those
who
    > have been unlawfully present for a year or more are inadmissible for 10
    > years. Aliens who are unlawfully present, depart the U.S. and subsequently
    > reenter under a grant of parole, may nevertheless be ineligible to adjust
    > their status.

that is nothing new, and has always been the rules as far as traveling on
AP. it is not the INS's job to decide whether you are admissible, it is the
officer at the POE, and it is the individual's responsibility to know the
law and to know whether or not they qualify to reenter using AP. The service
center/district office simply issues you the AP which allows you to travel
without abandoning your AOS, but has nothing to do with whether or not you
qualify for admission.

Jesse

This is probably partially due to a case in the news lately. I don't
know all of the details, but here is what I understand of the case in
a nutshell:

It involves an 11 year old girl who came to the U.S. from Russia with
her mom. Her mom married a U.S. citizen. The girl travelled alone
back to Russia to visit relatives. Before leaving, the parents
applied for Advanced Parole, but didn't get the document before the
girl left the country. They figured they would have it before it was
time for her to return, and could send it to her. Bottom line is they
still don't have the Advanced Parole document, the girl was supposed
to be back in August I believe. Now they are raising a stink saying
the INS isn't doing their job, are incompetent, and heartless. They
have the media and a Congressman involved.

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:16:52 GMT, "Pat Sinclair"
wrote:

    >Folks, travelling on Advance Parole can be bad for your health, this was
    >issued just a several days ago:
    >November 14, 2002
    >INS Issues Foreign Travel Advisory for Aliens
    >With Pending Immigration Applications
    >The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) reminds aliens who have
    >applied to adjust status to that of permanent resident that they must obtain
    >Advance Parole (Form I-131-- Application for Travel Document) from the INS
    >before traveling abroad. Travel outside of the United States may have severe
    >consequences for certain aliens who are in the process of adjusting their
    >status. Such aliens may be unable to return to the United States, their
    >applications may be denied, or both.
    >Under the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of
    >1996, aliens who depart the United States after being unlawfully present in
    >the United States for certain periods can be barred from admission to lawful
    >permanent resident status, even if they have obtained Advance Parole. Those
    >aliens who have been unlawfully present in the United States for more than
    >180 days, but less than one year are inadmissible for three years; those who
    >have been unlawfully present for a year or more are inadmissible for 10
    >years. Aliens who are unlawfully present, depart the U.S. and subsequently
    >reenter under a grant of parole, may nevertheless be ineligible to adjust
    >their status.

Rete

That may be the one of reasons why they issued the "warning" which has been in effect for quite a long time. The problem with this child's trip abroad is that the A/P must be VALID on the first day of travel. Allowing her to leave the country before it was issued was stupidity on the part of the parents. Also many INS offices require that a person pick up the A/P in person. So one must not assume it will be mailed.

But you know how press can turn the tide for some cases. Wanna bet that this child is allowed back into the US in short order due to public outcry of the abuse INS is heaping upon her and her mother?

Rete

Ingo Pakleppa

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:31:50 -0800, Mrs_Blackross wrote:

    > that is nothing new, and has always been the rules as far as traveling
    > on AP.

That is true!

    > it is not the INS's job to decide whether you are admissible, it is the
    > officer at the POE,

The officer at the POE *is* INS. Further, in this particular case, the
officer doesn't decide about whether you are admissible. Somebody with a
pending adjustment of status actually is never admissible (except with
H-1B). All the officer can decide about is whether to parole the person
into the US - which means, allow him to enter the US despite being
inadmissible. In case of AOS, the parole is actually issued earlier (thus
the name ADVANCE parole), so the INS officer rather decides whether there
might be any additional reasons for not allowing you back in (such as, in
this case, the three-year or ten-year bans applying).

Ingo

Margaret

One comment here.

Sad that when people don't want to follow the rules, then INS is to
blame as in the case of the Russian child.

My husband's friend didn't follow the rules when he married his
Canadian wife here and just left the country to visit her parents back
in Canada without filing papers. They were denied re-entry back into
the U.S. Now they are paying the price for their stupidity.



Rete wrote in message news:...
    > That may be the one of reasons why they issued the "warning" which has
    > been in effect for quite a long time. The problem with this child's
    > trip abroad is that the A/P must be VALID on the first day of travel.
    > Allowing her to leave the country before it was issued was stupidity on
    > the part of the parents. Also many INS offices require that a person
    > pick up the A/P in person. So one must not assume it will be mailed.
    >
    > But you know how press can turn the tide for some cases. Wanna bet that
    > this child is allowed back into the US in short order due to public
    > outcry of the abuse INS is heaping upon her and her mother?
    >
    > Rete
    >
    >

Jesse

Right and right. There is a push to have this girl back by
Thanksgiving, but the INS has basically promised they would have her
back by her birthday (in December I believe). I thought the same
things when I heard this story; the parents knew the rules, but
disobeyed them. Now they are blaming the INS. But I will also admit
that sometimes it is hard to know of and comply with the latest rule
changes, which in a way encourages people to break them.

Here is my story regarding AP. My wife came to the U.S. on a Fiancee
Visa. We got married shortly after, and then applied for AOS. She
wanted to travel back home, so I investigated AP. Everything I found
at that time indicated that you filed by walking in to your local INS
office. I was also led to believe the AP document would be issued the
same day. This information came from not only what was on-line (INS
web site), but also calling the INS phone number (which was a local
number, so I assumed I was talking to the local office). About 3 - 4
weeks before she was going to travel, I took a day off from work and
we went to the local INS office. They have a sign posted when you go
into the front help counter area saying which forms they accept at the
local office, and which must be mailed. Much to my surprise, the AP
form was listed as one that must be mailed. So we waited in line and
I asked about if. We were told, yes you must fill out the form and
mail it to us here at this office. I already had the form filled out,
so I said why can't I just hand it to you? The answer was, we can't
accept it that way, but you can put it in an envelope and drop it in
the mail box outside. I thought, what a convoluted process!

So, I asked if we could talk to an Immigration Officer about this. We
were given a number, and got to see an officer (after a long wait of
course). I tried to plead our case since my wife was travelling in a
few weeks and they were saying it would take 30 - 60 days to get the
AP document. I told the officer that I called the phone number and
was told to apply in person (in fact the rule was you MUST apply in
person), and we would get issued the document the same day. The
response was the phone is answered by a service center in California,
they don't know the procedures here at this local office. I said,
well then they should say that procedures vary from office to office,
and SHOULD have a listing of what the procedures are for the various
offices. All the officer could say was sorry, that's just how it
works. I don't remember if I convinced the officer to take the form,
or if I ended up mailing it after we left the office. But I did send
a written complaint to the local office director. A week later, my
wifes Advance Parole document came in the mail. Don't know if it was
due to the complaint or not though.

But anyway, back to this case. The same press that is blaming the
"heartless" INS in this case, is critcizing the INS for not following
rules in other cases. So the INS is getting it both coming and
going.

On 22 Nov 2002 06:36:59 -0800, [email protected] (Margaret)
wrote:

    >One comment here.
    >Sad that when people don't want to follow the rules, then INS is to
    >blame as in the case of the Russian child.
    >My husband's friend didn't follow the rules when he married his
    >Canadian wife here and just left the country to visit her parents back
    >in Canada without filing papers. They were denied re-entry back into
    >the U.S. Now they are paying the price for their stupidity.
    > Rete wrote in message news:...
    >> That may be the one of reasons why they issued the "warning" which has
    >> been in effect for quite a long time. The problem with this child's
    >> trip abroad is that the A/P must be VALID on the first day of travel.
    >> Allowing her to leave the country before it was issued was stupidity on
    >> the part of the parents. Also many INS offices require that a person
    >> pick up the A/P in person. So one must not assume it will be mailed.
    >>
    >> But you know how press can turn the tide for some cases. Wanna bet that
    >> this child is allowed back into the US in short order due to public
    >> outcry of the abuse INS is heaping upon her and her mother?
    >>
    >> Rete
    >>
    >>

Joe

Ok, I am really confused now. I interpret the above to mean that if
you are applying for AOS, and have applied and received the AP
(I-131), you can STILL be refused entry back into the US if you travel
abroad if that immigrant is subject to a 3 or 10-year ban?

In my case, I was out-of-status for nearly 3 years and therefore am
subject to a 10-year ban. I have applied for AOS (based on marriage to
a USC) and will shortly apply for AP to go visit my folks back home
(whom I haven’t seen in over a decade!). So am I correct in
understanding that the AP is uselss in my case and I should not travel
abroad until I have my green card in hand (which could take several
years!!)???


Ingo Pakleppa wrote in message news:...
    > On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:31:50 -0800, Mrs_Blackross wrote:
    >
    > > that is nothing new, and has always been the rules as far as traveling
    > > on AP.
    >
    > That is true!
    >
    > > it is not the INS's job to decide whether you are admissible, it is the
    > > officer at the POE,
    >
    > The officer at the POE *is* INS. Further, in this particular case, the
    > officer doesn't decide about whether you are admissible. Somebody with a
    > pending adjustment of status actually is never admissible (except with
    > H-1B). All the officer can decide about is whether to parole the person
    > into the US - which means, allow him to enter the US despite being
    > inadmissible. In case of AOS, the parole is actually issued earlier (thus
    > the name ADVANCE parole), so the INS officer rather decides whether there
    > might be any additional reasons for not allowing you back in (such as, in
    > this case, the three-year or ten-year bans applying).
    >
    > Ingo

Joachim Feise

Joe wrote:
    > Ok, I am really confused now. I interpret the above to mean that if
    > you are applying for AOS, and have applied and received the AP
    > (I-131), you can STILL be refused entry back into the US if you travel
    > abroad if that immigrant is subject to a 3 or 10-year ban?

Yes. INA Section 212(a)(9)(B) says:
See


    > In my case, I was out-of-status for nearly 3 years and therefore am
    > subject to a 10-year ban. I have applied for AOS (based on marriage to
    > a USC) and will shortly apply for AP to go visit my folks back home
    > (whom I haven’t seen in over a decade!). So am I correct in
    > understanding that the AP is uselss in my case and I should not travel
    > abroad until I have my green card in hand (which could take several
    > years!!)???

Correct.

-Joe

Ap

In article ,
[email protected] says...
    > Ok, I am really confused now. I interpret the above to mean that if
    > you are applying for AOS, and have applied and received the AP
    > (I-131), you can STILL be refused entry back into the US if you travel
    > abroad if that immigrant is subject to a 3 or 10-year ban?
    >
    > In my case, I was out-of-status for nearly 3 years and therefore am
    > subject to a 10-year ban. I have applied for AOS (based on marriage to
    > a USC) and will shortly apply for AP to go visit my folks back home
    > (whom I haven’t seen in over a decade!). So am I correct in
    > understanding that the AP is uselss in my case and I should not travel
    > abroad until I have my green card in hand (which could take several
    > years!!)???

Unfortunatelly, this is true and it is nothing new. When you get your AP
(if you get it) you would see the note on your document. Unfortunatelly
you have to wait at least to the interview time (you can travel with
stamp only in your passport, you do not have to have plastic to travel)


AP

Chris Parker

    > Folks, travelling on Advance Parole can be bad for your health, this was
    > issued just a several days ago:
    >
    >
    > November 14, 2002
    >
    > INS Issues Foreign Travel Advisory for Aliens
    > With Pending Immigration Applications

Not really new; in fact it almost a complete republish of the exact
same notice from 3 years ago.

What is new? They have a new mailing address for Form AR-11. They
also indicate there is some kind of "processing" which will occur when
Form AR-11 is received now. I wonder what's going on....


CP

Ingo Pakleppa

You are right about not following the rules and then blaming the INS. On
the other hand, the INS really IS to blame for a number of things in this
case:

- making the rules so complicated and not all that well known to
laypeople that it is difficult or impossible to know them all without a
lawyer. There really is no need for this particular rule; it is very arbitrary.
- taking such an awfully long time that this becomes an issue in the
first place.

Congress also shares its part of the blame here:

- having the doctrine of "no immigration intent" is what caused the
rationale behind the rule the parents violated. This doctrine is horribly
outdated; it stems from a time when an ocean crossing was a
once-in-a-lifetime thing. In the age of the airlines, entering and
leaving the country is much more routine.
- underfunding INS and overloading it with mandates causes horribly long
processing times.

Of course, all these details are lost in the newspaper.

I just hope that this will cause Congress to look at the underlying laws.
I'm not optimistic.

Ingo

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 06:36:59 -0800, Margaret wrote:

    > One comment here.
    >
    > Sad that when people don't want to follow the rules, then INS is to
    > blame as in the case of the Russian child.
    >
    > My husband's friend didn't follow the rules when he married his Canadian
    > wife here and just left the country to visit her parents back in Canada
    > without filing papers. They were denied re-entry back into the U.S.
    > Now they are paying the price for their stupidity.
    >
    >
    >
    > Rete wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> That may be the one of reasons why they issued the "warning" which has
    >> been in effect for quite a long time. The problem with this child's
    >> trip abroad is that the A/P must be VALID on the first day of travel.
    >> Allowing her to leave the country before it was issued was stupidity on
    >> the part of the parents. Also many INS offices require that a person
    >> pick up the A/P in person. So one must not assume it will be mailed.
    >>
    >> But you know how press can turn the tide for some cases. Wanna bet
    >> that this child is allowed back into the US in short order due to
    >> public outcry of the abuse INS is heaping upon her and her mother?
    >>
    >> Rete

Ingo Pakleppa

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:33:58 -0800, Joe wrote:

    > Ok, I am really confused now. I interpret the above to mean that if you
    > are applying for AOS, and have applied and received the AP (I-131), you
    > can STILL be refused entry back into the US if you travel abroad if that
    > immigrant is subject to a 3 or 10-year ban?
    >
    > In my case, I was out-of-status for nearly 3 years and therefore am
    > subject to a 10-year ban. I have applied for AOS (based on marriage to a
    > USC) and will shortly apply for AP to go visit my folks back home (whom
    > I haven’t seen in over a decade!). So am I correct in
    > understanding that the AP is uselss in my case and I should not travel
    > abroad until I have my green card in hand (which could take several
    > years!!)???
    >
    >
Yes, you are correct. In fact, INS should deny your AOS. If they approve
it by mistake, the AOS document will actually carry a pretty prominent
warning that it will not allow you to travel of you are subject to the
bans. In the initial time of the bans, this was a problem, and people got
trapped. INS responded by adding these warnings.

So - do not leave the US until you have a Green Card.

    > Ingo Pakleppa wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 05:31:50 -0800, Mrs_Blackross wrote:
    >>
    >> > that is nothing new, and has always been the rules as far as
    >> > traveling on AP.
    >>
    >> That is true!
    >>
    >> > it is not the INS's job to decide whether you are admissible, it is
    >> > the officer at the POE,
    >>
    >> The officer at the POE *is* INS. Further, in this particular case, the
    >> officer doesn't decide about whether you are admissible. Somebody with
    >> a pending adjustment of status actually is never admissible (except
    >> with H-1B). All the officer can decide about is whether to parole the
    >> person into the US - which means, allow him to enter the US despite
    >> being inadmissible. In case of AOS, the parole is actually issued
    >> earlier (thus the name ADVANCE parole), so the INS officer rather
    >> decides whether there might be any additional reasons for not allowing
    >> you back in (such as, in this case, the three-year or ten-year bans
    >> applying).
    >>
    >> Ingo

jelena

Hi everyone!
I haven't heard before for AP, but now that I
read about it I don't know if I need one.
I got Notification Letter for DV2003 ("won" the lottery) with a very high case number (EU36XXX) that won't be current before next summer.
Therefore I decided to go through CP and sent back to KCC
DV230 I and II forms which are some form of application for Immigration.
I plan to go back home to Europe for winter holidays for couple of weeks and reenter US on my current student visa.
Do I still need AP letter from INS since I am going thorugh CP instead of AOS?
Or it means that whenever you show "immigration intent" it is not very smart to leave US?

Thank you very much for your help and any kind of useful information.

Jelena

Ingo Pakleppa

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:56:52 +0000, jelena wrote:

    >
    > Hi everyone!
    > I haven't heard before for AP, but now that I
    > read about it I don't know if I need one.
    > I got Notification Letter for DV2003 ("won" the lottery) with a very
    > high case number (EU36XXX) that won't be current before next summer.
    > Therefore I decided to go through CP and sent back to KCC
    > DV230 I and II forms which are some form of application for
    > Immigration.
    > I plan to go back home to Europe for winter holidays for couple of weeks
    > and reenter US on my current student visa.
    > Do I still need AP letter from INS since I am going thorugh CP
    > instead of AOS?
    > Or it means that whenever you show "immigration intent" it is not very
    > smart to leave US?

You do NOT need AP (and in fact, you wouldn't get it). But it is probably
not very smart to leave the US right now because of the immigration
intent. Chances are that it won't be a problem when you return (it usually
is only a problem when you apply for a new visa) but you would still be
taking a chance here.