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Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Old Jul 3rd 2009, 12:20 pm
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Default Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

A little bit of a bizarre question, fueled by paranoia rather than common sense

My N-400 is processing, and I am not a US citizen.

I was recently chosen to sit as chairperson on our city planning and zoning committee, and will chair my first meeting next week.
Each meeting is started with the pledge of allegiance to the US and state flags. I will be expected to lead this practice. In doing so I am wanting assurance that USCIS would not interpret this as claiming to be a US citizen?
I'm sure its a dumb question, but I've already asked it now

These meetings are subject to the Open Meetings Act, and therefore public record.
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Old Jul 3rd 2009, 1:37 pm
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

My feeling is it is probably not illegal, but it is possible some of your fellow committee members may object to being led in the pledge by a non US citizen.

Perhaps it would be prudent to explain the situation and have someone else do it until your process is complete.
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Old Jul 3rd 2009, 1:42 pm
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

I agree, while I doubt there's an issue of claiming to be a US citizen, many might not feel it's 'the done thing'.

I'd look at it similar to a perm. resident who enlists in the US military - they have to recite an oath of allegiance too.
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Old Jul 3rd 2009, 1:48 pm
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Originally Posted by thinbrit View Post
In doing so I am wanting assurance that USCIS would not interpret this as claiming to be a US citizen?
I don't think the pledge says that you are a citizen, just that you are loyal to the US.

Personally, I'd ask someone else to lead it just for anti-nausea reasons...
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Old Jul 3rd 2009, 4:28 pm
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Originally Posted by thinbrit View Post
A little bit of a bizarre question, fueled by paranoia rather than common sense

My N-400 is processing, and I am not a US citizen.

I was recently chosen to sit as chairperson on our city planning and zoning committee, and will chair my first meeting next week.
Each meeting is started with the pledge of allegiance to the US and state flags. I will be expected to lead this practice. In doing so I am wanting assurance that USCIS would not interpret this as claiming to be a US citizen?
I'm sure its a dumb question, but I've already asked it now

These meetings are subject to the Open Meetings Act, and therefore public record.
Saying the pledge is not saying you are a US citizen. Just if I were to sing O' Canada, I would not be proclaiming myself a Canadian citizen.

You will be saying the pledge at your oath ceremony. If you don't feel comfortable saying it before your citizenship, then briefly explain the situ to the members and ask someone else to lead the pledge. Or briefly say before the pledge: I'm not yet a USC, although I have petitioned for naturalization. It is my honor to lead you in the pledge.

It is your call.
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Old Jul 3rd 2009, 4:32 pm
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Originally Posted by Rete View Post
You will be saying the pledge at your oath ceremony.
Maybe. I just stood there silent while most - but not all - other pledged allegiance. I just don't agree withe the concept that the pledge embodies.
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Old Jul 3rd 2009, 4:57 pm
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Maybe. I just stood there silent while most - but not all - other pledged allegiance. I just don't agree withe the concept that the pledge embodies.
Just curious - what don't you agree with? Pledging allegiance to your new country?
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Old Jul 3rd 2009, 5:03 pm
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Originally Posted by Kaffy Mintcake View Post
Just curious - what don't you agree with? Pledging allegiance to your new country?
The idea that the pledging to a flag is meaningful. I prefer to "pledge" by doing things like being a responsible, productive citizen, voting, doing jury duty etc.
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Old Jul 3rd 2009, 5:24 pm
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
The idea that the pledging to a flag is meaningful. I prefer to "pledge" by doing things like being a responsible, productive citizen, voting, doing jury duty etc.
The current version of the pledge also contains the words "under God" which I could not in good conscience bring myself to say.
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Old Jul 3rd 2009, 8:11 pm
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Just cross your fingers during the pledge.... then it doesn't count.

Seriously though. Claiming to be a USC is a problem if done for any Federal, State or Local benefit. There is no benefit granted based on saying the pledge, and nowhere in the pledge does a person claim to be a USC.
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Old Jul 3rd 2009, 10:30 pm
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Originally Posted by Kaffy Mintcake View Post
Just curious - what don't you agree with? Pledging allegiance to your new country?
The pledge is essentially saying "my country right or wrong" - but I will disagree it if it's wrong. The "Under God" element is a (relatively new) violation of the principle separating the church & state. It's just empty patriotic words.
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Old Jul 3rd 2009, 10:58 pm
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Originally Posted by lapin_windstar View Post
The pledge is essentially saying "my country right or wrong" - but I will disagree it if it's wrong. The "Under God" element is a (relatively new) violation of the principle separating the church & state. It's just empty patriotic words.

I just love these interpretations and these idiotic excuses ... can't say it because I don't believe in god.

Gotta love you guys...you are all so very funny.
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Old Jul 3rd 2009, 11:01 pm
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Maybe. I just stood there silent while most - but not all - other pledged allegiance. I just don't agree withe the concept that the pledge embodies.

But if the pledge said I pledge alliance to the flag for which it stands and for the financial and social benefits it gives me including the right to be a non-believer in a higher power, with liberty and justice for all, I bet you would have shouted it out.

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Old Jul 4th 2009, 12:15 am
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Originally Posted by Rete View Post
I just love these interpretations and these idiotic excuses ... can't say it because I don't believe in god.

Gotta love you guys...you are all so very funny.
Well it kind of puts people who don't believe in god, or believe in other religions in a bit of a bind, do they say it hypocritically or do they ignore it?

There is supposed to be a seperation of state and religion, though it is hard to see that these days.

Personally I think the whole pledge thing is a bit naff and of a quaint bygone era, I mean still said in school and government meetings? It really is side lining those who aren't American from society.

Nothing wrong with playing the anthem at sporting events though, but the pledge, really?
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Old Jul 4th 2009, 12:18 am
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Default Re: Implications of pledging allegiance to the US Flag prior to citizenship?

Originally Posted by Bob View Post
Personally I think the whole pledge thing is a bit naff and of a quaint bygone era, I mean still said in school and government meetings? It really is side lining those who aren't American from society.

Nothing wrong with playing the anthem at sporting events though, but the pledge, really?
I guess it seems appropriate to me for an oath ceremony to pledge ones allegiance. As for the "Under God" part, if you don't agree it's easy enough to skip that part.
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