Bob

No, you seem to have a major inability to understand what you are reading.

I'll leave you to it.

Except to say, you are wrong once again.

amideislas

I suspect you just don't like what I'm saying. You openly admit you don't like people, so I'm probably not that far off the mark.

After all, this all started when, after seeing some very nice experiences and opinions expressed about people's experiences there, I expressed how refreshing it is to hear nice things about the US instead of the usual made-up bollocks that's been bantered about for the past decade or so.

It was supposed to be a compliment, but in the interest of contrary banter, apparently it's still chic to consider the US as the root of all things bad on the planet.

OK, as you wish. But I still envy you in many ways. It could be a lot worse.

Cheers.

Moses2013

I just went shopping and bought cranberry juice very cheap in Ireland. Cranberries were from the US. I also bought a pair of trainers from an american company, but they were made in China. Then again I've just seen that some parts of my car came from the US too, but amideislas doesn't want to see that.

SultanOfSwing

At the risk of coming across as ad hominem myself, I think you're being a wee bit precious about the perceived 'dismissals'.

You already stated you don't live in the US, yet a few people who do live here have demonstrated that there is indeed a class system of sorts in the US, it's just implemented in a different way to the European norms.

I have seen it too, it's just often a bit more subtle out here than it is in, say the UK.

I disagree. Some people do, but the US forum on here, at least, is reasonably balanced, even when you consider the people who don't like it here.

dunroving

How can anyone describe the US as a classless society?

People of Wal-Mart
Trailer Trash
Rednecks
Wrong side of the tracks

Are these not the terms of a class-conscious society?

SultanOfSwing

People of WalMart sort of describes a society of classless people ...

amideislas

Last point:

I never said there wasn't a class system in the US, only that I find it refreshing that it's not nearly as clearly defined as it is here. Economic class isn't the first thing on people's minds there. Social circles are much broader and open. By comparison. I find that refreshing.

As far as dismissals, well, what then, was this debate about? I saw it as "you're wrong no matter what". But in my neighbourhood (whether here or Germany, or wherever) it's not in dispute by anyone. People argue whether it's fair or reasonable or stupid or whatever, but not whether it exists.

Anyway.. move on. It's not worth it.

SultanOfSwing

It really depends on where you go here though. There is a serious amount of 'keeping up with the Jonses' that goes on here and a person's net worth is quite often seen as a big deal by many. Social circles are often seen as something that is a matter of convenience, rather than genuine friendship.

I think where your position comes into play is the fact that the US is big a varied enough that it is easier to find a situation where this doesn't apply than it may be in the UK or Europe.

Sally Redux

Well thanks for giving us the benefit of your experience of US life.

Giantaxe

Indeed. People who think there is no class system in the US need to explain why, for example, legacy preferences for college admissions still exist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences

Bob

Just a suggestion....but when you're talking BS and you're called on it, you should perhaps just stop digging.

amideislas

I most certainly never suggested any of the above. Those may be what you chose to interpret, but I never said any of that. If you're going to accuse me of something, at least use something I actually said.

You're entitled to your opinion, but what bs? Show me where I spouted any bs? If I said the name of this forum is "British expats", would that also qualify as bs?

Jeezus.

jjmb

Getting back to - how is your life better than in the UK- I am not sure it is but I am happy enough over here as my husband has a good job and good health insurance. He had a good job in Scotland, plus a car allowance, 6 wks leave plus paid sick days. Now he has no car allowance and although he has a good leave allowance that includes sick days plus its accrued over the year.Not so good is the constant worry that he could be laid off when the economy is bad, especially as he is getting to that magic age of near 60. Happen to his boss and his boss's boss just last week. No warning, out of the door by the end of the day. At least in the UK, you would have a decent amount of time to absorb the situation and get your sh## in order and you wouldn't have worry about no health insurance. Used cobra when my daughter was in between college and jobs, $600 a month!

I have never been able to find a decent job over here so my experience of working over here has not be stellar. Retail was the only thing I found and part-time. Longest job was as a homeworker, working remotely so never had that same worker experience. However, as I didn't work in Scotland, I might well have found myself in the same situation. I have never been able to find a set of friends over here as my kids were too old to go on 'play dates' which is the way I found friends in Scotland when we moved there. I volunteered for a few years but as volunteers are often irregular and working, never managed to make friends there either. I will admit a few years ago I would not have been so happy but now I have just got use to life as it is.

So life has been good to us on the whole apart from the usual/unusual family dramas of teenage hood. I am not sure life is that great for my kids over here though.

2 have been to college and completed their degrees, both are earning considerable less than their compatriots in the UK (Scottish mainly) and they definitely have less vacation time than their friends. Youngest daughter is now working full time at Wells Fargo and going to night classes to get her accountancy qualifications. Maybe by the time she is 30, she might be on a par with friends in the UK. A friend of ours, daughter is training to be physical therapist. By the time she gets her doctorate, she will have more than $100,000 in loans, just to cover her fees and will be nearly 30 when she is finished. Similarly my youngest daughter has a friend who is training to be nurse. She already had a science degree but still she needed requisites before she could start her 2 yr nursing degree which required an additional 18 months of study. In Britain, both of them would be practising in their professions by now as you do the degree in the area you will be working in.

Eldest daughter has had a child over here and got the less than stellar 6 wks maternity paid leave. She was lucky to get that as employers are not required to give paid leave. She had a very difficult birthing experience, having nearly lost her life and was still on blood thinners when she returned to work. She had no choice but to return to work otherwise she wouldn't have got paid and they obviously needed the money when they had a newborn baby. Fortunately, husband was working from home so no need for childcare. She left that job shortly afterwards so she could spend more time with her child which was well worth it as the bond they have is amazing. Obviously that was her choice and she saved up so she could spend the first 9 months with my grand-daughter. Their budget was tight and only manageable because they moved to NM for the period (much less expense) However, when she returned to work market, it took her a good few months to get a comparable job and then at a lower salary. Only now Juniper is 2.5yrs old, is she back to the place she was before she got pregnant. In comparison, several of her friends have had children and taken the full one year off before returning to their work or they split their maternity leave with their partners as most employers over in the UK now offer paternity leave. One even moved to Canada with her job, getting pregnant almost straight away and she still got the full maternity leave. She had her 2nd child just last year, with another 9 months off with 3 months for her husband.

None of my kids owe any property yet but the majority of their friends do.

They are aware life can be tough over there as they also have friends who have not been as successful but they also see that they don't have to worry about healthcare or childcare.

Both my girls are now considering moving back to the UK or somewhere in Europe as they see their friends having a much better life than they have here. Of course, the eldest will now have to contend with the stricter immigration rules for spouses in the UK so she might be stymied in that regard.

Of course this is all a generalisation based on our experience and not to say life isn't good over here, just different. After saying all that, we definitely here for the long haul unless that changes drastically (like both daughters move to the UK/Europe)as this is where our life and family is.

Nutmegger

With respect to your second quote above, with pleasure. Your first quote is unadulterated, grade one b.s.

amideislas

So, your first concern when meeting other people is what economic class they belong to? You judge them on the basis of their clothing, car, watch, etc. This is how you assess their character?

We visit friends in the US at least once per year. Not just one set of friends in one place, but very different people of different economic status, in different states, and sorry, but I have never experienced that character in the US, and I have never met an American who exhibits it. I've seen it in Hollywood movies, but I just haven't seen it in real life so far.

Interesting.