Angry White Pyjamas

Or at least 3 unsafe ones.

Lion in Winter

Or I suppose he could renounce any of his more inconvenient citizenships.

AdobePinon

Until they change the rules. Or the immigration official decides that he just doesn't like you in particular.

JAJ

Not every country allows citizenship to be renounced. Especially the more 'inconvenient' ones.



Jeremy

Angry White Pyjamas

True. But then there are 192 other countries to visit which should keep most people busy for a while. Even if you discount the least favourable say 100 or so that does leave quite a lot of world to vacation in where the USCIS have no say.

CPW

True, true. But it does pay to be aware of pacts and treaties between countries. This was a common problem before the fall of communism in eastern Europe, where a person who was, say, a citizen of Czechoslovakia, and wanted there for illegally leaving the country, would be able to be arrested on arrival in another communist country, even though he or she might be a citizen of a western country and travelling on a passport issued by that country. It was not at all uncommon for people to be 'caught out' in this way, even people who had made their escape decades earlier. On occasions it also affected children born to people after they had fled, since they were considered by the communist bloc to be citizens by descent.

I cannot say that no such issues would arise now, although they are not likely in Europe any more.

I guess those of us who are citizens of western-style democracies - and many users of this site are aspiring to be (or are already pleased to be) citizens of more than one such country - are apt to forget how desperate many people are to lose their original citizenship! For example, I know that a lot of the literature that the Home Office sends out to someone who has naturalised as British concerns *warnings* that previous citizenships might *not* have been lost, advice about how to find out what the individual's situation is, and ways to get official documentation of loss of citizenship and lodge it with the British authorities - so that the new British citizen can claim help from the British authorities when in the country of old citizenship. Happily, such steps are not necessary for most of us on these boards.

Lion in Winter

Well I just hope my son's three are ones that do then. Mexico grants dispensation from military service for those who are residents of another country. Don't know what the U.S. rule is - will have to look. But ultimately, of course, it will be my son's decision, not mine, whatever my opinions may be.

Englishmum

I was quite surprised when a friend told me that her son had signed up to spend last Summer with the Israeli army. (I saw a photo him in army uniform holding a big gun stuck on the door of their fridge). The young man was born and lived all of his life in the US.

However, his dad was born in Israel and when he was five they moved to Canada...I think his dad now has Israeli, Canadian and US citizenship. The mother is American.

I wonder what the Dept. of Homeland Security would have to say about that.....indeed what if the family were of Arabic descent and sent their son off to somewhere like Syria?

frrussre

Gruffbrown, no need to get it, most of the New Citizens didn't?
For my Oath Ceremony, I stood in a room of around 500 people. Taking into account only a few of us seemed to be able to speak English, I can only assume the other 475 did not swear to anything. Or visually even recite the words.
Confusing, was to me.
Reg. Frank R.

Celtic_Angel

can't they do that anyway? through both parents?..I've had 3 kids and none of them were born in the U.k.do I need to be concerned?

JAJ

Concerned about what?

Neither the UK nor the US has any "choice of nationality" rule, despite many urban myths to the contrary. In fact, only a few countries in the West have any rule like this.



Jeremy

fatbrit

Have you done the paperwork and paid the king's ransom at the consulate, yet? Get it done. You need both bits (the passport and the registration) to be safe.

Maz

I'm a dual citizen, have been for 5 years. The thing about renouncing allegiance does not mean relinquishing foreign nationality. It just means that you are considered to be "more" American than British when you travel (and in the US as well).

I've had absolutely zero problems with it, apart from the odd confusion when travelling to or from the UK, with which passport I've grabbed out of my handbag. I think they're very used to having dual nationals coming through the major airports, and will often ask if you are a dual, then you just say yes and present the other passport. No biggee. Rule of thumb is to use the passport of the country you are travelling towards, however when leaving the US on a round trip ticket, make sure you can also present your US passport as proof that you'll be allowed back in the country.

Daughter is a dual national, too. She was born here and has 2 passports. We didn't bother registering her birth with the UK Embassy in Washington, though we have until she is 7 to do that if we feel like it. I might bother if I feel so inclined. It says on the website that that is *not* required to retain UK citizenship.

scrubbedexpat099

Support the Constitution

I have no major issue here, and judging from AM radio you can pretty much read anything you want into the Constituation anyway.

Obey the laws of the US

Well any country you are in requires you to do that whatever your status.

Renounce any foreign allegiance and/or foreign title

I have made no allegiances and have no tiltle, so not an issue either.

Bear arms for the Armed Forces of the U.S. or perform services for the government of the U.S. when required.

Not that likely at my age, but also not that unreasonable if you live here.

jaytee

It's a hurdle for you to get over if you want to proceed with becoming a US citizen.

Official websites:

British Embassy:
"acquisition or use of US citizenship does not of itself jeopardise retention of British citizenship, and there is not objection on the part of British authorities to a dual citizen using a US passport"

"The US authorities expect dual citizens to travel out of and into United States territory only on US passports. British citizens who are also US citizens are therefore advised to consult the US State Department (or if overseas a US Consul) before taking any action which might be regarded as inconsistent with their status as US citizens.

A British citizen may return and resume residence in Britain at any time, regardless of being a dual national, provided that he has not made a formal declaration of renunciation of British citizenship as described in paragraph one above.Such persons may in British law exercise any right possessed generally by British citizens, but of course it is their own responsibility to ascertain from the appropriate US authorities what effect, if any, their action may have on their status as a citizen of that country."



US Dept. of State:
"dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship."

US Embassy in London: http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web...ts/dualcit.htm

"In the 1980's, the Supreme Court ruled that citizenship is a constitutional right that cannot be taken away from a citizen who does not intend to relinquish it. Therefore, such actions as naturalization in a foreign country, travel on a foreign passport, employment with a foreign government, and voting in a foreign election do not automatically jeopardize American citizenship. However, please note that all U.S. citizens, even dual nationals, must enter and depart the United States on U.S. passports."


Rich Wale's Guide: http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
"I have been researching the dual citizenship issue in my spare time since 1986. "

Rich Wale's Q & A: VERY INFORMATIVE

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html


Question 5: "If dual citizenship is legal now, then why do people who want to become naturalized US citizens still have to take an oath giving up their old citizenship?
The Afroyim Supreme Court ruling, which paved the way for dual citizenship after foreign naturalization, dealt specifically with the 14th Amendment's guarantee of citizenship to people "born or naturalized in the United States." The court did not prohibit Congress from establishing prerequisites to naturalization. Hence, it is still OK for Congress to require prospective new citizens to be willing to renounce their old citizenships.

Incidentally, this asymmetry may explain why many immigration lawyers in the US are seemingly unaware of the laws permitting dual US/other citizenship. They spend all their time dealing with people who want to become US citizens or permanent residents -- and since the US requires a renunciation of prior citizenship as part of the naturalization procedure, these lawyers may incorrectly assume the law works the same both ways and thus misadvise someone who is already a US citizen that he can't become a dual citizen. Be very mindful of this point if you look for a lawyer to discuss a dual citizenship situation with; if you find one who insists it's flatly impossible because US law prohibits it, keep looking.

Also, officials of the US Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) may not always be aware of the full story on dual citizenship, for the same reason. INS employees who work as immigration officers at US border checkpoints presumably know dual US/other citizenship is possible -- but INS people who handle naturalization applications may not (since, as already mentioned, the US naturalization oath does contain a renunciatory statement which all would-be citizens must agree to make). Keep in mind that the primary US agency which deals with people who already are (or claim to be) US citizens is not the INS, but the Department of State. Consular officials at US embassies and consulates overseas work for the State Department.

Many other countries do not recognize the act of renouncing their citizenship as part of US naturalization, so a new US citizen may very likely still be considered a citizen by his old country. This is apparently a big reason why the State Department decided (in 1990) not to go after people any more, as a rule, when they continue to let their old country treat them as a citizen despite US naturalization. "

Question 13: "I was recently told by a US customs official that the US doesn't "recognize" dual citizenship. What gives?
It depends on exactly what is meant by "recognizing" dual citizenship. If the official meant to say that dual US/other citizenship violates US law, he was, simply put, wrong. If he meant that foreign citizenship makes no difference under US law if one is also a US citizen, he was right.

US citizenship law is primarily concerned with whether or not a given person holds US citizenship. If a person is a US citizen and is currently within the jurisdiction of the US, any other citizenship(s) he or she may hold are really not relevant in US law.

A "dual citizen" has no special status in the US by virtue of holding citizenship in some other country too. In particular, if you are a dual citizen and get into some kind of legal trouble while in the US, you should not expect the US to acknowledge any efforts by consular officials of your other country of citizenship to intervene in your behalf.

Also, when a "dual citizen" enters the US, he/she is expected to identify himself to US immigration and customs officials as a US citizen (not as a citizen of some other country) -- and in cases where a passport is required to enter the US, a dual US/other citizen is expected to enter on a US passport, just like any other US citizen.

I've heard of recent cases where dual US/other citizens briefly got into sticky situations while entering the US, when they attempted to identify themselves either as "dual" citizens or as citizens of another country. In former times (before the latest round of State Department policy reforms), attempting to enter the US on a foreign passport could even be used as "evidence" of intent to relinquish US citizenship. Although this apparently isn't a danger any more, the best thing to do is probably to make life simple and assert only your US citizenship rights when entering the US.

Remember that US immigration officers are primarily interested in determining whether a person wishing to enter the US should be let in. If you hold US citizenship, then you have a legal right to enter, remain in, and work in the US. Holding some other citizenship as well as US citizenship is completely irrelevant in this case, and if you make an issue of holding a second citizenship, you're just making it more likely that US officials will think something is amiss"






See, ultimately, you have to come to your own conclusion through research, because you are going to raise your right hand at the oath ceremony and say the words. They are going to tell you at the oath ceremony that the US does not recognize dual citizenship and will announce the UK as your former nationality as written on your US naturalization certificate which is used to get your US passport.