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How do they manage in San Francisco

How do they manage in San Francisco

Old Dec 30th 2015, 10:54 pm
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

Originally Posted by ChocolateBabz
Yep, $11,000 property taxes here in Houston, TX
But no income tax. ..... Our property tax PLUS our state income tax is right in the same ballpark for modern 4 bed home. The government gets its pound of flesh no mater what.
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Old Dec 30th 2015, 10:54 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

I assumed California would be one of the worst offenders for property tax, sounds like at $6.5k I'm getting a deal .
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Old Dec 30th 2015, 10:57 pm
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

Originally Posted by Boiler
Cheap compared to London.
Rubbish!
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Old Dec 30th 2015, 10:59 pm
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

Originally Posted by username.exe
I assumed California would be one of the worst offenders for property tax, sounds like at $6.5k I'm getting a deal .
Add in vehicle tax, income tax and sales tax for a fair and complete picture.

I saw an article a few years ago now which featured a notional average resident of every state, and the tax burden for almost all states was between 9% and 12%, with only a handful of outliers (AK being low, and I think CA being high), but the highest was no more than 14%.

Obviously if you have high income or want a large house there can be good or bad states to live in, but for most people the differences in tax burdens in different states, are relatively modest.
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Old Dec 30th 2015, 11:12 pm
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

I don't really know how people manage: the prices are INSANE and I'm not just talking about property either. Food in restaurants etc is extortionate and crap quality.

Service is a joke (understandably, the people who generally work the lower paid service jobs simply can't afford to live around here). CalTrain means you can kind of sort of do without a car if you're lucky enough to live near the station and where you want to go is also near a station but with 1 train an hour you're screwed if you miss it.

We were just in a ski resort out in Tahoe and decided to get a beer. Braced ourselves for the bill and were shocked to see that at $7, a pint was cheaper than our crappy local bar that shuts at 10pm. 2 beers there usually cost us $17 ($7.50 per pint and $2 tip). That's not exactly a cheap night out!

We pay well over 3,000 for a 2 bed/1 bathroom in the Peninsula. It's nice and in a good area but wow, simply, what a waste of money. Regarding East Palo Alto, when I was looking for a place to live, I saw similar apartments there going for around the same price.

So yeah, I don't know how people on 'average wages' survive. I guess they don't which is why the area between SFO and San Jose is basically devoid of any culture/interest/art scene/happiness.
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Old Dec 31st 2015, 12:34 am
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

That $849k house would be about $4200 a year here in NM.
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Old Dec 31st 2015, 4:59 am
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

Originally Posted by Moses2013
I always knew that the Bay area is expensive, but how do people really manage to live there these days and why? Of course there are many high paying tech jobs, but if you are so highly qualified and work long hours, don't you want to live in luxury, or have more spending money than a person on minimum wage? Even with a great salary, to afford a wood shack like this in an earthquake zone, you need $849K and then property taxes are $470 each month. Even with a decent San Francisco salary, how much money do people really have at the end of the month?20 Prague Street, San Francisco, CA For Sale | Trulia.com
That's actually a cheap one you managed to find there.
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Old Dec 31st 2015, 7:03 am
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

Vancouver here isn't much if any better, possibly more. Hard to do a direct comparison due to the currency differences and fluctuating exchange rates, but here is the cheapest house currently listed on MLS for the City of Vancouver. You can find cheaper in the burbs.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...olumbia-V5L1L3

938,000.




Now how people do it here, basically works like this:

1) Those buying are wealthy, with a lot of off shore money coming in.

2) Those living in Vancouver rent or have owned since before prices became insane, and those in the lower spectrum and hell even middle spectrum income wise may have multiple roommates. You can rent a room for 500-700 a month in most of the city.

3) People live in the burbs and commute into the city for work.


Condos are also cheaper and well Vancouver is a condo city now, so younger folks and urban types live in condos instead of a house.

Originally Posted by dc koop
San Diego is one of my favourite cities. I would have happily settled there, somewhere like in Encinitas or La Jolla when the prices of houses were about half of what they are today but my wife has a sister living Pasadena so she wanted to live in that area.

I have been through the east side of Vancouver on a tour bus and it was a shocker. I never expected places like that in BC. I've heard they're progressive though. The now have needle clinics where folk can go get a clean new needle and then do the deed

DTES of Vancouver will really open people's eyes if they see it, literally you go from million dollar condos and wealth, cross the street into the poorest area of BC and possibly Canada, drugs, mental illness, severe poverty, and so on. You get used to it though living here, not much one can do on the individual level to fix anything, but slowly its being gentrified, and big question is, where will all the addicts and mentally ill go?

Vancouver as a city is somewhat progressive, but British Columbia as a whole is not all that progressive, just 50 mins east of Vancouver for example you have the bible belt, the government is despite the name BC Liberals closer to conservative then liberal.

On a whole California tends to be more progressive, and San Francisco seems fairly progressive to me, at least last time I was there.

Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Dec 31st 2015 at 7:06 am.
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Old Dec 31st 2015, 7:20 am
  #24  
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

Originally Posted by sherbert
I don't really know how people manage: the prices are INSANE and I'm not just talking about property either. Food in restaurants etc is extortionate and crap quality. Service is a joke (understandably, the people who generally work the lower paid service jobs simply can't afford to live around here). CalTrain means you can kind of sort of do without a car if you're lucky enough to live near the station and where you want to go is also near a station but with 1 train an hour you're screwed if you miss it. We were just in a ski resort out in Tahoe and decided to get a beer. Braced ourselves for the bill and were shocked to see that at $7, a pint was cheaper than our crappy local bar that shuts at 10pm. 2 beers there usually cost us $17 ($7.50 per pint and $2 tip). That's not exactly a cheap night out! We pay well over 3,000 for a 2 bed/1 bathroom in the Peninsula. It's nice and in a good area but wow, simply, what a waste of money. Regarding East Palo Alto, when I was looking for a place to live, I saw similar apartments there going for around the same price. So yeah, I don't know how people on 'average wages' survive. I guess they don't which is why the area between SFO and San Jose is basically devoid of any culture/interest/art scene/happiness.
It shocks me when I here this. Of course California can be a great place, but then you also hear of people paying $11.000 property tax in Houston and what are you getting for this? Mentality and salaries are obviously a lot different in Europe and pensions will be higher in California, especially if you've worked there all your life, but it's still shocking. I suppose people just get used to it and because it's California (where dreams come true), you start to believe you are so much better off than others living in wet Seattle for example. Apart from weather, places like Seattle & Portland seem to be becoming a lot more attractive for young families and start-ups and the work life balance is more important to many people.

Last edited by Moses2013; Dec 31st 2015 at 7:31 am.
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Old Dec 31st 2015, 9:25 am
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

Originally Posted by N1cky
That's actually a cheap one you managed to find there.
Yes, and that $420 per month in property taxes sounds like what the current owner might be paying. If it sells for the asking price then it will be reassessed and I wouldn't be surprised if the taxes went up to over $700 per month ...
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Old Dec 31st 2015, 12:43 pm
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

Originally Posted by Boiler
Cheap compared to London.
Originally Posted by sherbert
Rubbish!
For what it's worth...

"World's most expensive cities" rankings vary from year to year, and by what criteria are used to rank them, but in virtually all rankings, London always falls within the top 10 or close to it.

In contrast, despite being an expensive place to live, San Francisco rarely even registers in the "most expensive" class.

What's the world's most expensive city?

London, currently ranked No 11 by the EIU, is also expected to move up next year. “London was always traditionally seen as very expensive – but it has stayed still while others have caught up,” says Copestake.

Now, from a purely personal experience perspective, and considering that I live on "Euro" economy, I recently had to visit London for a few days, paying £70 per night for a very creepy, tiny little room with a shared bath. Paid £15 for really awful fish & chips, and paid £90 for a rather average dinner for two.

To bring a little perspective, returned via Barcelona, where I paid €58 (£43) per night for a lovely, spacious, modern hotel room (yes, with posh ensuite bath), breakfast buffet and health spa included. Paid €62 (£45) for a fab 5 course meal for two, including 2 nice bottles of Crianza.

Last edited by amideislas; Dec 31st 2015 at 1:10 pm.
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Old Dec 31st 2015, 12:53 pm
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

Looked up where I used to live, about $1500 a sq ft.
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Old Dec 31st 2015, 1:40 pm
  #28  
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

Originally Posted by amideislas
For what it's worth... "World's most expensive cities" rankings vary from year to year, and by what criteria are used to rank them, but in virtually all rankings, London always falls within the top 10 or close to it. In contrast, despite being an expensive place to live, San Francisco rarely even registers in the "most expensive" class. What's the world's most expensive city? Now, from a purely personal experience perspective, and considering that I live on "Euro" economy, I recently had to visit London for a few days, paying £70 per night for a very creepy, tiny little room with a shared bath. Paid £15 for really awful fish & chips, and paid £90 for a rather average dinner for two. To bring a little perspective, returned via Barcelona, where I paid €58 (£43) per night for a lovely, spacious, modern hotel room (yes, with posh ensuite bath), breakfast buffet and health spa included. Paid €62 (£45) for a fab 5 course meal for two, including 2 nice bottles of Crianza.
It's always hard to compare cities, but London is the capital, has more celebrities compared to San Francisco etc. and the chances of finding a more expensive property will be higher. While I fancy Barcelona, the minimum wage is lower than London and people have less in general, so it will always be cheaper. If you look at San Francisco, it doesn't even seem possible that a couple working in admin jobs can afford anything, but in London you probably still can, even if it's not that great? If I was a young IT Expert, I would certainly rather be in Barcelona with 40K than San Francisco with 100K.
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Old Dec 31st 2015, 1:56 pm
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

Originally Posted by Moses2013
If I was a young IT Expert, I would certainly rather be in Barcelona with 40K than San Francisco with 100K.
Depends. How many young, talented 'IT experts' have created billion-dollar companies in Barcelona? How many have in the Bay Area?
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Old Dec 31st 2015, 2:14 pm
  #30  
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Default Re: How do they manage in San Francisco

Originally Posted by FlyingDutchman6666
Depends. How many young, talented 'IT experts' have created billion-dollar companies in Barcelona? How many have in the Bay Area?
Don't know, but maybe it's time those talented people started their own business elsewhere (it's happening), because as you say it's already been done in the Bay Area. It's always best to start the trend, rather than follow the trend. No matter if it's the stock market, property market, the winners always buy low and sell high.
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