Rete

And guess what? When you the correct visa to live and work in the US, you will probably start out with only 1 week's vacation and if lucky, perhaps 7 bank holidays.

PrincessSilver

Hi Dan

I was in your exact situation a year ago and just have received my US visa. For the marriage in the UK, you need to make an appointment at your registry office (this can be done up to 12 months prior to the date of the marriage) to file for the marriage (this would be the same if you were marrying another Brit), however the difference is your fiancee will need to be in the country for a full 7 days before the date of that appointment (the day she arrives does not count towards one of those days). The appointment lasts about half an hour then in 28 days you get the paperwork to get married (again this wait would be the same if she were a Brit). Unfortunately those time periods are non-flexible and they are very strict about the 7 days of waiting (or better thought of as seven 24 hour consecutive periods starting midnight to midnight). You need to have a date/location and registrar/vicar to marry you arranged before you can attend the appointment.

My CR-1 has taken about 11 months from filing if it helps and K-1 visas were being processed at the same rate. .If you enter the US on an ESTA and marry in the States you could have some issues. You would legally be required to state that you are getting married as your reason for entry. The customs official may then deny your entry based on fear of you remaining. However, if you does not state that you're are getting married (and instead declare that you are coming just for a visit) you may be found later to have lied on your ESTA application and denied permanent entry to the US.

There is nothing you can do about a wait wherever you get married so work out what you would like (you'll only marry her once).

Rete

Thank you for posting PS. The OP has already gotten his answer over a month ago and hasn't been back since.

BTW if he entered the US on the VWP (the ESTA is only permission to use the VWP) he will have no issues at all. As long as he does not remain past the 90 days allowed him, he is fine.

From your post: "However, if you does not state that you're are getting married (and instead declare that you are coming just for a visit) you may be found later to have lied on your ESTA application and denied permanent entry to the US."

That is not true. As long as he leaves the US before his 90 days under the VWP is up. The USCIS has no ability to deny him the right to marry within the US regardless of what he tells the officer/agent at the POE nor the right to deny him re-entry to the US based on the fact that he did not tell him that he was entering the US to marry.

Notker

Hello all. Just to clarify, I am new here and am PS husband (US citizen). We both found this site yesterday and joined up while looking at things together over Skype. We found this post and since our experiences exactly mirror Dan's (with the exception of gender/country being opposite) we believed we were uniquely qualified to speak on it. We went through this exact issue last year (married in July in the UK) and she has received her CR-1 to join me and will be doing so in less than a month Because of this, we though we could perhaps help Dan (even though we were both aware that this post was from a month ago) or also help anyone else in a similar situation that may come upon this in the future and read it (as we did). In future, however, we will be quite happy to stay silent on something that is older, if that is how this forum works.

That said, there were several people who have suggested that he just come to the US to get married under the VWP (commonly referred to as ESTA). That is certainly a personal decision, but is not without risks. While Rete is correct in stating that the US does not have the right to deny him the ability to marry once in the US, it absolutely has the right to deny him entry - for just about any reason it sees fit. If the customs official at PoE decides that he is intending to over-stay his 90 days and only intends to marry and stay, then he may be denied entry. Furthermore, you should be aware of the 30/60 rule - which basically assumes that if you marry within 30 days of entry into the US, you have entered with the intent to marry. If you marry within 60 days, it can be considered suspicious. Second, also beware of “immigrant intent” issues. The concept here is that a person cannot enter on a temporary status – such as VWP (or ESTA) – with the subjective intention of applying for permanent residency. If a person has such an intention she has essentially lied to the U.S. Government when using VWP, since it is intended for those who plan to return within the 90-day window. If a person decides to seek a green card, then enters the U.S. under VWP, he/she could be found permanently inadmissible to the United States. This is a penalty of lying to customs or on a VWP application. If Dan did return home after marrying, and within the 90 day window, and customs believed that he entered the US with the intent to marry, he could still be found inadmissible for having previously lied about the reason for his visit.

I am not trying to scare-monger here, as it is entirely possible that it would go fine for everyone involved. I'm only trying to state the possibility of issues that may arise from entering the US with the intent to marry, while declaring that you are here for a routine visit/travel/tourist, etc. or the Customs agent at PoE possibly refusing entry for grounds of concern he will marry and over-stay. I don't know what those possibilities are in statistical terms (perhaps unlikely???), however it wasn't something that PS and I chose to chance, as it could potentially bar her from entry into the US for good. In any case, it is a personal decision that a couple has to make, if to take that chance or not, but they should do so only with an understanding of all of the potential pitfalls that may come with it. At the very least, to eliminate a large part of the potential for issues, Dan could come over on a Fiance visa (which is what that visa is intended for as opposed to the VWP).

Finally, if they are planning to marry in a CoE ceremony, they should also consult the vicar and make arrangements, as CoE requires 4 weeks (I believe) notice for Reading the Bans prior to a wedding service.

scrubbedexpat099

Intent is determined at the PoE, not an issue for adjustment.

Rete

You are scare-mongering and while you are correct about entry being at the mercy of the agent at the POE, there is no stigma attached to marrying within 60 days of entering. The issue is intent and the intent to enter and marry is just fine, the issue of intent to marry and remain is not fine. While for decades USCIS has turned a blind eye to this and have approved AOS for thousands of those who have done just that ... married within 60 days or after 60 days and remained to adjust status. In today's political climate, it is almost suicidal to do so.

I mean no disrespect but this sentence of yours "If Dan did return home after marrying, and within the 90 day window, and customs believed that he entered the US with the intent to marry, he could still be found inadmissible for having previously lied about the reason for his visit." is laughable. For over 2 decades and after attending immigration classes at a NYC renowned university, your premises is incorrect in that he would be denied if an agent/officer felt that he lied upon entry the previous time. One can marry spontaneously and it can be on day 2 or day 80 of their visit. There is no law against marrying in the US and no law against a spouse returning to visit the US bound spouse. It is up to the agent to decide that the visitor will leave the US before the expiration of their allowed visit. If paperwork is started to obtain the CR-1 visa, this holds more weight for their leaving the US to continue the legal processing.

We welcome you to the BE forums and anticipate your and your wife's participation in the future.

Notker

I'm not arguing otherwise re: intent. Customs officers have the subjective determination to decide entry into the US. "The VWP allows qualifying foreign nationals of designated countries to enter the United States for up to 90 days to conduct business or for pleasure without first obtaining a visa. Before a foreign national is admitted under the VWP, in addition to meeting certain requirements, he or she must waive the right to contest any action for removal..." This does NOT include marriage. That is what a K1 Visa is for.

When you apply for CR-1 visa (or I-485), they will pull all relevant I-94 and CBP electronic data to review the reasons for previous visits. If they find that you intended to marry on a previous visit, while under the VWP, which is for "Conduct(ing) business or for pleasure", then they could find that you have committed fraud.

B. Willful Misrepresentation

Inadmissibility based on willful misrepresentation requires a finding that a person willfully misrepresented a material fact. For a person to be inadmissible, the officer must find all of the following elements:

•The person procured, or sought to procure, a benefit under U.S. immigration laws;

•The person made a false representation;

•The false representation was willfully made;

•The false representation was material; and

•The false representation was made to a U.S. government official, generally an immigration or consular officer.

If all of the above elements are present, then the person is inadmissible for willful misrepresentation.

I am happy to provide links to the relevant government documents if you like, but I don't know this forums policy on linking to outside sources and I don't have the points to be able to do so.

Nutmegger

Welcome to BE. However, there is nothing unique about your experiences -- visit the BE Marriage Forum and you will find hundreds of people who have successfully taken the same route, including those who have visited the US to marry and then returned to the UK to go through the visa process.

Mods, perhaps this thread needs to be moved to the marriage section of the forum to avoid future misunderstandings.

Nutmegger

You are so wrong. For a start, what on earth is the immigration benefit obtained by coming to the US, marrying, and leaving? The K-i is for someone who intends to marry and stay. It is perfectly legal to enter on the VWP, marry, and then leave to start the spouse visa process.

Notker

I'm not suggesting that we are the "only" people who have done this, only that we have gone through it very recently (under the current political climate) and had a similar set of circumstances (getting married in the UK and moving to the US) so went through the waiting periods for the Registrar, CoE Bans, being in country 7 days prior (which after many phone calls we found out does NOT include the first day that you arrive), etc. so thought we could help.

I also stated that he "Could be denied" not that he "would be denied" and there is the very small difference that I was trying to point out. I can drive 3 miles over the speed limit and likely never get a ticket, but that is different than saying that I "can't get a ticket" (depending on the laws of your state, etc. - just using as an analogy). I was only trying to point this out as a possibility (and perhaps not even a large one), but in this political climate, it certainly wasn't something that me and PS were willing to chance.

My most sincere apologies to those whom it seems I have offended. It was NEVER mine, nor PS intent to do so.

scrubbedexpat099

Horribly wrong.

Rete

I cannot see that there is any case for misrepresentation / false representation that occurs when someone enters the US, marries and returns to their own country and their USC spouse files for the start of their CR-1 visa. You are over-reaching and over-reacting. When you enter the POE, you are asked the purpose of your trip, whether you say or don't say, it is to marry, is irrelevant. Why? Because there is nothing illegal about doing so or entering and not proclaiming that as the sole reason for your visit. Many people who have done this, have answered to marry and have been let through successfully. If you are pursuing the CR-1 visa, you are not going through only the USCIS but through consular processing this is different than remaining in the US and filing and staying for adjustment of status.

Your quoted text has relevance only to those doing just that ... marrying and remaining.

Yes, every entry into the US POE or the UK POE, for that matter, is up to the officer interviewing you. There is never any guarantee of entry unless you are a citizen of that country.

I'm happy that you and your wife decided to marry in the UK instead of the US but that was not the only place you could have married. You could have married in the US, the Netherlands, France, Spain, Turkey, wherever an official marriage is recognized by the US government as being a legal and valid marriage.

I feel that you are trying very hard to justify the way that you went about marrying and giving your spin on things. Please be open minded enough to entertain the thought that you misinterpreted what you read.

Rete

BTW the VWP is not for conducting business. It can be used to visit a home office or a subsidiary office; for attending meeting; conventions but not for conducting business, per se.

BritInParis

The VWP covers the same activities as a B-1/B-2 visa, no?

Notker

If you look at the state website for the VWP, it clearly states in the first and second sentence: " (VWP) enables most citizens or nationals of participating countries to travel to the United States for tourism or business for stays of 90 days or less without obtaining a visa."

Secondly see: 9 FAM 302.9-4(U) MISREPRESENTATION - INA 212(A)(6)(C)(I) - Subsection B
(and the benefit under immigration law is the benefit of actually entering the US - Nutmegger)

Third - I'm not trying to justify the reasoning behind why we married the way that we did. In all actuality she had ailing family that would not have been able to make it to the US, so it was important that we have it in the UK so that they could attend. This reason actually didn't play a relevant role, but in looking at everything, this is what we found and I was just trying to pass it along. It is not dissimilar to what I've heard and read several immigration attorneys statements to be.

In any case, I shall stop the beating of the dead horse.