Help with marriage
 

Hi, been doing some googling and i'm getting a little confused. My American fiancée and i are planning on getting married in the UK and living in the US. She has started the Marriage Visitor Visa process. However what i am seeing online is she needs to be in the UK for 7 days before being able to give notice of marriage and then a 28 days wait to marry, is that right even with our situation because she only gets 2.7 weeks vacation per year (bad i know i get almost 6 weeks) and she has just taken 2 weeks vacation time while i was over there the end of last month. She is here in January for 8 days and we were planning on doing it then however her having to be here for 7 days makes that a little more tricky then having to come back a month later to marry is going to be expensive for travel considering she can only come back for a day or 2 max due to vacation time. We did look at going for the K-1 and marrying over there and i did see something about being able to go over and marry and i can stay until i get the visa is that correct? its all very complicated, i just want to be with the girl i love, why do they have to make it so difficult.

Thanks for any help,
Dan

Re: Help with marriage
 

Check with the Registry Office what the requirements are, I believe she needs a visa to marry in the UK.

This forum is more about the subsequent move to the US, she will be filing for a CR1 visa for you.

Re: Help with marriage
 

The plan is to move to the US but we are getting Married here then try to move across to the US. it seemed better than us getting married over there.

Re: Help with marriage
 

Just go to the US on an ESTA, marry and then return to the UK and apply from there. Has she actually applied for a Marriage Visitor visa yet?

Re: Help with marriage
 

Can i do that though, just go to the US on a normal ESTA and marry without any special visa or anything? she hasn't finished applying for it, she has paid for it and has filled the forms in, has an a bio-metric appointment coming up later this week before she can send it all of but can cancel and get a refund for the visa any time before sending it off.

Re: Help with marriage
 

Re: Help with marriage
 

Yes, you absolutely can intend to do that, you'd then apply for a CR-1 visa at home in the UK. This is what I would recommend; however emphasis on returning home. You absolutely must return home or else you will be committing immigration fraud.

Please be aware though that there is no "immediate" way to migrate to and work in the US, even as a married couple. The process will take months, sometimes over a year.

You have two options, apply for a K-1 visa, go over to the US, marry, file for adjustment of status to a permanent resident (and at the same time apply for an employment authorization document and advanced parole - these will let you work and travel in/out of the US, respectively) This will take 3-5 months roughly for the right to work and 12-18 months to receive your conditional greencard.

OR going over, marrying on the ESTA (VWP) and then coming home, applying for the CR-1 directly at the consulate. This will give you the ability to become a "green card" holder the second you enter the US and work immediately, direct consular filing (DCF) will be the quickest route to greencard, but does mean you wouldn't be able to work or live in the US until it is adjusted. I believe this is around 8-10 months, but I could be wrong.

The general recommendation is usually the CR-1 route as it's quickest, but if you can afford to be unemployed for 3-5 months then the K-1 option is also available to you.

Re: Help with marriage
 

DCF is much quicker but does not apply in these circumstances.

CR1 ia about 15 months.

Re: Help with marriage
 

Could you elaborate? Why would DCF not apply?

Re: Help with marriage
 

They need to be UK resident.

Re: Help with marriage
 

[QUOTE=ParagonGreeny;12561524]Can i do that though, just go to the US on a normal ESTA and marry without any special visa or anything? she hasn't finished applying for it, she has paid for it and has filled the forms in, has an a bio-metric appointment coming up later this week before she can send it all of but can cancel and get a refund for the visa any time before sending it off.[/QUOTE

She almost certainly won't get the filing fee refunded for the marriage visitor visa, but yes you can marry in US on ESTA. Vegas - same day probably, most other places a few days waiting time. Then go back and start the CR1.

DCF was mentioned but does not apply because the US spouse would need to be living in the foreign spouses country for several months to qualify.

Re: Help with marriage
 

Sorry, but the bits I bolded are completely incorrect.

Re: Help with marriage
 

You are correct, I mistakenly thought both were in the UK.

OP should still be able to file K-1 and CR-1 though, but the timelines would be different as his spouse wouldn't be able to file i-130 in the UK.

Also K-1 would still require EAD/AP following marriage and AOS which will take 3-5 months, so I stand by that statement.

Re: Help with marriage
 

Ok thank you guys, i am over there in November so we have decided to do it then. i can't wait.

Re: Help with marriage
 

It is right ... sadly.

Re: Help with marriage
 

And guess what? When you the correct visa to live and work in the US, you will probably start out with only 1 week's vacation and if lucky, perhaps 7 bank holidays.

Re: Help with marriage
 

Hi Dan

I was in your exact situation a year ago and just have received my US visa. For the marriage in the UK, you need to make an appointment at your registry office (this can be done up to 12 months prior to the date of the marriage) to file for the marriage (this would be the same if you were marrying another Brit), however the difference is your fiancee will need to be in the country for a full 7 days before the date of that appointment (the day she arrives does not count towards one of those days). The appointment lasts about half an hour then in 28 days you get the paperwork to get married (again this wait would be the same if she were a Brit). Unfortunately those time periods are non-flexible and they are very strict about the 7 days of waiting (or better thought of as seven 24 hour consecutive periods starting midnight to midnight). You need to have a date/location and registrar/vicar to marry you arranged before you can attend the appointment.

My CR-1 has taken about 11 months from filing if it helps and K-1 visas were being processed at the same rate. .If you enter the US on an ESTA and marry in the States you could have some issues. You would legally be required to state that you are getting married as your reason for entry. The customs official may then deny your entry based on fear of you remaining. However, if you does not state that you're are getting married (and instead declare that you are coming just for a visit) you may be found later to have lied on your ESTA application and denied permanent entry to the US.

There is nothing you can do about a wait wherever you get married so work out what you would like (you'll only marry her once).

Re: Help with marriage
 

Thank you for posting PS. The OP has already gotten his answer over a month ago and hasn't been back since.

BTW if he entered the US on the VWP (the ESTA is only permission to use the VWP) he will have no issues at all. As long as he does not remain past the 90 days allowed him, he is fine.

From your post: "However, if you does not state that you're are getting married (and instead declare that you are coming just for a visit) you may be found later to have lied on your ESTA application and denied permanent entry to the US."

That is not true. As long as he leaves the US before his 90 days under the VWP is up. The USCIS has no ability to deny him the right to marry within the US regardless of what he tells the officer/agent at the POE nor the right to deny him re-entry to the US based on the fact that he did not tell him that he was entering the US to marry.

Re: Help with marriage
 

Hello all. Just to clarify, I am new here and am PS husband (US citizen). We both found this site yesterday and joined up while looking at things together over Skype. We found this post and since our experiences exactly mirror Dan's (with the exception of gender/country being opposite) we believed we were uniquely qualified to speak on it. We went through this exact issue last year (married in July in the UK) and she has received her CR-1 to join me and will be doing so in less than a month :) Because of this, we though we could perhaps help Dan (even though we were both aware that this post was from a month ago) or also help anyone else in a similar situation that may come upon this in the future and read it (as we did). In future, however, we will be quite happy to stay silent on something that is older, if that is how this forum works.

That said, there were several people who have suggested that he just come to the US to get married under the VWP (commonly referred to as ESTA). That is certainly a personal decision, but is not without risks. While Rete is correct in stating that the US does not have the right to deny him the ability to marry once in the US, it absolutely has the right to deny him entry - for just about any reason it sees fit. If the customs official at PoE decides that he is intending to over-stay his 90 days and only intends to marry and stay, then he may be denied entry. Furthermore, you should be aware of the 30/60 rule - which basically assumes that if you marry within 30 days of entry into the US, you have entered with the intent to marry. If you marry within 60 days, it can be considered suspicious. Second, also beware of “immigrant intent” issues. The concept here is that a person cannot enter on a temporary status – such as VWP (or ESTA) – with the subjective intention of applying for permanent residency. If a person has such an intention she has essentially lied to the U.S. Government when using VWP, since it is intended for those who plan to return within the 90-day window. If a person decides to seek a green card, then enters the U.S. under VWP, he/she could be found permanently inadmissible to the United States. This is a penalty of lying to customs or on a VWP application. If Dan did return home after marrying, and within the 90 day window, and customs believed that he entered the US with the intent to marry, he could still be found inadmissible for having previously lied about the reason for his visit.

I am not trying to scare-monger here, as it is entirely possible that it would go fine for everyone involved. I'm only trying to state the possibility of issues that may arise from entering the US with the intent to marry, while declaring that you are here for a routine visit/travel/tourist, etc. or the Customs agent at PoE possibly refusing entry for grounds of concern he will marry and over-stay. I don't know what those possibilities are in statistical terms (perhaps unlikely???), however it wasn't something that PS and I chose to chance, as it could potentially bar her from entry into the US for good. In any case, it is a personal decision that a couple has to make, if to take that chance or not, but they should do so only with an understanding of all of the potential pitfalls that may come with it. At the very least, to eliminate a large part of the potential for issues, Dan could come over on a Fiance visa (which is what that visa is intended for as opposed to the VWP).

Finally, if they are planning to marry in a CoE ceremony, they should also consult the vicar and make arrangements, as CoE requires 4 weeks (I believe) notice for Reading the Bans prior to a wedding service.

Re: Help with marriage
 

Intent is determined at the PoE, not an issue for adjustment.

Re: Help with marriage
 

You are scare-mongering and while you are correct about entry being at the mercy of the agent at the POE, there is no stigma attached to marrying within 60 days of entering. The issue is intent and the intent to enter and marry is just fine, the issue of intent to marry and remain is not fine. While for decades USCIS has turned a blind eye to this and have approved AOS for thousands of those who have done just that ... married within 60 days or after 60 days and remained to adjust status. In today's political climate, it is almost suicidal to do so.

I mean no disrespect but this sentence of yours "If Dan did return home after marrying, and within the 90 day window, and customs believed that he entered the US with the intent to marry, he could still be found inadmissible for having previously lied about the reason for his visit." is laughable. For over 2 decades and after attending immigration classes at a NYC renowned university, your premises is incorrect in that he would be denied if an agent/officer felt that he lied upon entry the previous time. One can marry spontaneously and it can be on day 2 or day 80 of their visit. There is no law against marrying in the US and no law against a spouse returning to visit the US bound spouse. It is up to the agent to decide that the visitor will leave the US before the expiration of their allowed visit. If paperwork is started to obtain the CR-1 visa, this holds more weight for their leaving the US to continue the legal processing.

We welcome you to the BE forums and anticipate your and your wife's participation in the future.

Re: Help with marriage
 

I'm not arguing otherwise re: intent. Customs officers have the subjective determination to decide entry into the US. "The VWP allows qualifying foreign nationals of designated countries to enter the United States for up to 90 days to conduct business or for pleasure without first obtaining a visa. Before a foreign national is admitted under the VWP, in addition to meeting certain requirements, he or she must waive the right to contest any action for removal..." This does NOT include marriage. That is what a K1 Visa is for.

When you apply for CR-1 visa (or I-485), they will pull all relevant I-94 and CBP electronic data to review the reasons for previous visits. If they find that you intended to marry on a previous visit, while under the VWP, which is for "Conduct(ing) business or for pleasure", then they could find that you have committed fraud.

B. Willful Misrepresentation

Inadmissibility based on willful misrepresentation requires a finding that a person willfully misrepresented a material fact. For a person to be inadmissible, the officer must find all of the following elements:

•The person procured, or sought to procure, a benefit under U.S. immigration laws;

•The person made a false representation;

•The false representation was willfully made;

•The false representation was material; and

•The false representation was made to a U.S. government official, generally an immigration or consular officer.

If all of the above elements are present, then the person is inadmissible for willful misrepresentation.

I am happy to provide links to the relevant government documents if you like, but I don't know this forums policy on linking to outside sources and I don't have the points to be able to do so.

Re: Help with marriage
 

Welcome to BE. However, there is nothing unique about your experiences -- visit the BE Marriage Forum and you will find hundreds of people who have successfully taken the same route, including those who have visited the US to marry and then returned to the UK to go through the visa process.

Mods, perhaps this thread needs to be moved to the marriage section of the forum to avoid future misunderstandings.

Re: Help with marriage
 

You are so wrong. For a start, what on earth is the immigration benefit obtained by coming to the US, marrying, and leaving? The K-i is for someone who intends to marry and stay. It is perfectly legal to enter on the VWP, marry, and then leave to start the spouse visa process.

Re: Help with marriage
 

I'm not suggesting that we are the "only" people who have done this, only that we have gone through it very recently (under the current political climate) and had a similar set of circumstances (getting married in the UK and moving to the US) so went through the waiting periods for the Registrar, CoE Bans, being in country 7 days prior (which after many phone calls we found out does NOT include the first day that you arrive), etc. so thought we could help.

I also stated that he "Could be denied" not that he "would be denied" and there is the very small difference that I was trying to point out. I can drive 3 miles over the speed limit and likely never get a ticket, but that is different than saying that I "can't get a ticket" (depending on the laws of your state, etc. - just using as an analogy). I was only trying to point this out as a possibility (and perhaps not even a large one), but in this political climate, it certainly wasn't something that me and PS were willing to chance.

My most sincere apologies to those whom it seems I have offended. It was NEVER mine, nor PS intent to do so.

Re: Help with marriage
 

Horribly wrong.

Re: Help with marriage
 

I cannot see that there is any case for misrepresentation / false representation that occurs when someone enters the US, marries and returns to their own country and their USC spouse files for the start of their CR-1 visa. You are over-reaching and over-reacting. When you enter the POE, you are asked the purpose of your trip, whether you say or don't say, it is to marry, is irrelevant. Why? Because there is nothing illegal about doing so or entering and not proclaiming that as the sole reason for your visit. Many people who have done this, have answered to marry and have been let through successfully. If you are pursuing the CR-1 visa, you are not going through only the USCIS but through consular processing this is different than remaining in the US and filing and staying for adjustment of status.

Your quoted text has relevance only to those doing just that ... marrying and remaining.

Yes, every entry into the US POE or the UK POE, for that matter, is up to the officer interviewing you. There is never any guarantee of entry unless you are a citizen of that country.

I'm happy that you and your wife decided to marry in the UK instead of the US but that was not the only place you could have married. You could have married in the US, the Netherlands, France, Spain, Turkey, wherever an official marriage is recognized by the US government as being a legal and valid marriage.

I feel that you are trying very hard to justify the way that you went about marrying and giving your spin on things. Please be open minded enough to entertain the thought that you misinterpreted what you read.

Re: Help with marriage
 

BTW the VWP is not for conducting business. It can be used to visit a home office or a subsidiary office; for attending meeting; conventions but not for conducting business, per se.

Re: Help with marriage
 

The VWP covers the same activities as a B-1/B-2 visa, no?

Re: Help with marriage
 

If you look at the state website for the VWP, it clearly states in the first and second sentence: " (VWP) enables most citizens or nationals of participating countries to travel to the United States for tourism or business for stays of 90 days or less without obtaining a visa."

Secondly see: 9 FAM 302.9-4(U) MISREPRESENTATION - INA 212(A)(6)(C)(I) - Subsection B
(and the benefit under immigration law is the benefit of actually entering the US - Nutmegger)

Third - I'm not trying to justify the reasoning behind why we married the way that we did. In all actuality she had ailing family that would not have been able to make it to the US, so it was important that we have it in the UK so that they could attend. This reason actually didn't play a relevant role, but in looking at everything, this is what we found and I was just trying to pass it along. It is not dissimilar to what I've heard and read several immigration attorneys statements to be.

In any case, I shall stop the beating of the dead horse.

Re: Help with marriage
 

Wow lots of action on here today, so an update on my situation.
i'm flying to the US for 21 days next month on the VWP and getting married while there, a friend and my dad are also coming over to be there with me for this. i was questioning if i should tell customs of my plans or not because i am there for the 21 days then i have a flight already booked coming back.

i can also take a letter from my employer saying i have to come back for my job but i don't have any rent or anything like that to pay right now so i can't show anything alone those lines,

Re: Help with marriage
 

Be polite, friendly, but strictly answer the questions that you are asked in a concise fashion. Take the letter, and keep it in your back pocket just in case.

Re: Help with marriage
 

Thanks everyone, We got married last month, it was perfect, we are just waiting for the marriage certificate back then we will start the visa process

Re: Help with marriage
 

Congratulations on your marriage.

In the future, if you return and have questions regarding the visa, please post in the marriage-based visa forum in the US section. The lovely people there will be happy to assist you.