robin1234

Many will remember that recently, there was a very good thread about Form 8938 & the unfortunate fact that TurboTax does not handle the new form.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=746761

I now have a follow-up question. Has anyone found a different tax prep company, i.e. one of TurboTax's competitors, that has digested the Form 8938 successfully, and does give a good result with multiple foreign bank accounts?

Reason I ask is, up to now I've always done the taxes by hand.. with a paper form, a pencil, and calculator. I find it easy enough since I have last year's filing to guide me, and twenty + year's experience. However, yesterday my wife finally had enough of me cursing out the moronic stupidity of the IRS in particular and the US bureaucratic mindset in general, and prevailed upon me to use TurboTax. I assumed that in the last couple of weeks, TT would have fixed their bug, but they haven't..

So, can anyone recommend a commercial online tax preparation utility that works as nicely as TurboTax in general, but has figured out the Form 8938?

Mallory

I saw some chit chat about that form online.

http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=73730.0

Moxie

I tried some of the free ones
File your taxes.com NO
Online Taxes at OLT.com NO

I think TurboTax may do a good job if you print and paper file. It's their e-file that gets rejected. I think they have updated their problem about not creating extra pages if you have multiple foreign accounts.

robin1234

It still wasn't working yesterday. The help desk person pointed me to this error report;
http://turbotax.intuit.com/support/i.../SLN55556.html
Now, she did tell me that the "desk-top" version (i.e. actually downloading the software) might work, but after 25 minutes of download and then my system being unable to install the TurboTax desktop version, we had to give up. I'd been online with her for an hour and a half. Considering the fact that I haven't paid TurboTax anything, this must be a business setback for them..

robin1234

Thanks .. I've been following all the discussions over at the other place with interest, in fact I've contributed. The discussions over in England seem to be more about whether or not certain types of pensions or trusts need to be reported; fortunately, my case is simple, I have foreign bank accounts, I just want to find an easy way to fill out the form..

Moxie

Go to Target or Walmart and buy a disk--TurboTax Basic should be around $29. You don't need anything fancier. Does your computer meet the specs for using TT? Look up the system requirements. That's a really long time for downloading.

I spent an hour and a half with their support too. I have the desktop version, but didn't need multiple pages or Part III. My problem was 4 efile rejects.

Giantaxe

Admittedly I haven't submitted my return yet, but I did manage to get multiple foreign bank accounts specified on Form 8938. Looking at the output form that Turbotax produced, the form 8938 has one bank account on it, and the other is on a continuation sheet. This seems consistent with the IRS instructions, namely "If you have more than one account to report, attach a continuation sheet with the same information for each additional account (see instructions)." I managed to add the second account from Other tax Situations/Other Tax Forms/Miscellaneous Tax Forms/Prepare a report on foreign financial assets. Is this what you did?

Of course, I have yet to see what will happen when my return gets e-filed and will let you know when I do.

robin1234

Thanks guys.

As a matter of principle & practicality, I'm reluctant to actually pay TurboTax anything until I'm confident that their service will work for me. I successfully downloaded and installed the desktop version that they had sent me on my more robust system at work, but when I tried to launch the installed desktop version it came up with an error so is not functional.

One problem is, if I use tax prep software, I MUST efile, since New York State has a new rule this year that those who use software to prepare must efile, i.e. you can only paper file if you have genuinely used the old paper-and-pencil method.

I think I will abandon the attempt to use tax prep software, and go back to the paper-and-pencil method. In a way it is a pity, I recognise the advantage of just entering data once and the software placing the data in the right places and doing all the sums. However, I know where everything goes so filling in the forms manually is not a huge chore for me.

Giantaxe

Well, my return got accepted by the IRS. And going through the Form 8938 instructions and matching it to the output TurboTax produced, I do think I coaxed it to get it right.

But it's clear that TurboTax has made a pigs ear of handling this form, with a number of significant problems in there. I spent way more time trying to get this form produced correctly than the rest of my return put together.

robin1234

I'm going to resurrect this thread -- I've been reading and studying Form 8938 information for several months, since the form and the instructions first became available. Now that I've sorted out my Turbotax problems (I actually purchased the desktop version) I've actually filled out the form 8938, Part I & III, no problem. Part II, though, is total gobblydegook, and (wouldn't you know) the Specific Instructions for part II are completely unhelpful. I have a final salary pension from my job in England, 1983-1991. So, a pretty small pension that I'll start collecting when I'm 65. None of the questions in Part II, section 7 or 8 seem to remotely fit a final salary pension! Where the heck is the ordinary taxpayer supposed to get guidance on this rigamarole?

celticgrid

Good luck, and can I be really selfish and ask you to let us know if/when you find out?

My valuation of my final salary pension item for this year was not enough to push me over the reporting threshold, but for various reasons I expect to be over the threshold for the 2012 return. I have started early trying to fgure out the form, in anticipation of needing to complete it in earnest in 10 months time. I remain unsure whether 10 months will be enough time to figure it out!

theOAP

(My question 1) Part II, lines 7 & 8:

There has been some comments (mixed amateur/pro) on the other place:
1.) A pension goes under line 8.
2.) The pension provider is an 'issuer'.
3.) For the IRS, most foreign pensions are viewed as a foreign trust.

I have no idea if any/all of the above are correct, or incorrect.

The implications of a foreign trust, and the filing of Form 3520, raised my interest. The instructions for Form 3520 contain the following:

"Form 3520 does not have to be filed to report the following transactions.

Distributions from foreign trusts that are taxable as compensation for services rendered (within the meaning of section 672(f)(2)(B) and its regulations), so long as the recipient reports the distribution as compensation income on its applicable federal income tax return."

http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i3520/ch01.html#d0e97

672(f)(2)(B) " Compensatory trusts

Except as provided in regulations, paragraph (1) shall not apply to any portion of a trust distributions from which are taxable as compensation for services rendered."

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/672

This seems to indicate that a company pension would not need a 3520 filing if distributions/benefits paid during the year are declared as pensions on lines 16 or 21 of Form 1040. As for those pensions which are yet to mature, I have no idea.

Again, I have no idea if this is correct, and I could be wrong. Thoughts?

(My question 2 will follow shortly.)

theOAP

(My question 2) Part II, lines 7 & 8:

In the UK, it is common for the 'Company' (ie who controls the pension you and/or they have contributed to) to use outside 'Accountants' to issue the monthly payments and P60.

The company signs the papers allowing the pension. The company advises you of any increase to the pension, or any news on the pension. The accountancy lists the details on monthly advice statements as your company scheme payment. HMRC, in your tax code advice, always talks of the company scheme. The account number (payroll reference) on your accountancy statements is your old company employee number. The P60 lists the 'Fund Name and Address' as the company, C/O the accountancy and their address.

The accountants pay the pension, and your bank statement lists the accountants as the payor of funds into your account.

Which name do you put as the 'foreign entity/issuer'? The company, or the Accountancy firm?

More thoughts?

robin1234

Being a quick & dirty kinda guy, the above is good enough for me. I can just put something in Part II, naming my pension scheme, not really caring if I've filled in their pissant Part II entirely correctly. At least I've shown willing. If they want to know more about my pension, they can always ask me some follow-up questions. Main thing is, I haven't willfully not filed.

theOAP

I like your attitude. If I'm in the area, I always try to visit those I like when they're in prison.

On line 1 of part II, I would describe the pension as a 'company pension'. In my case, I'm considering 'Final salary (defined benefit) company pension'.

For line 8a, I'm considering the issuer as 'Company C/O Accountants', and on lines 8d and 8e I'll give the accountants address. Well.... for today anyway.