dunroving

Well, after 4 weeks of serious soul-searching over the Christmas break, I have decided that being in the UK just isn't working for me. So, this Spring and for as long as it takes, I'll be searching for an opportunity to go back and work in the States, for good this time.

I know this is the MBTUK forum and strictly speaking I'm doing the opposite, but for those of you thinking of coming back, below are my reasons for finally (after 18 months of being back) deciding to give up trying to make it work, and advice to those of you considering returning:

First off, I simply don't want to spend the rest of my working life (and beyond) putting all my money into paying off a mortgage. I spent 10 years doing that in the States, and was finally at the point of being mortgage-free, and I just don't want to start all over again – I think I've put in my time after 6 years of penny-pinching during grad school followed by 10 years working and saving like a dog. If you are coming back with little money and are not especially young, work out very, very carefully what the costs of buying a UK house will be, and what it will take to pay the mortgage (not just each month, but for how many years - do you really want to be paying off your mortgage 10 years into retirement?). Money certainly doesn't guarantee happiness, but lack of it can sure make happiness difficult to achieve.

Second, my job is driving me crazy – and from what I can tell, working elsewhere in higher (and further) education is going the same way as where I work so moving elsewhere in the UK won't solve it. I just found out that my step-brother was off work for 3 months with stress (he has taught in an FE college for the past 20+ years). I was just in a meeting where they were talking about combining my class with classes from other degree programs – so I'd be teaching research methods to a class of 120 undergraduates from three very diverse degree programs. That's not my idea of what education should be. It seems the new model is "stack 'em deep and teach 'em cheap". Plus, we seem to spend endless hours on documenting, evaluating, planning, reviewing, discussing, ad nauseum in meetings that just suck the life out of you. I've been to more meetings in the past 6 months than in 6 years teaching in North Carolina! So, if your profession is very important to you, get a good feel for whether you'd be happy in your job – have things changed in your profession in the UK since you left? They certainly have in mine.

Thirdly, I have come to acknowledge that the homesickness I feel for the US is way, way worse than anything I ever felt for the UK when I lived over there. I guess it makes sense when you think that I spent the vast majority of my adult life in the States. I feel much more of a stranger here than I did in the States (and being a stranger seemed natural over there, and was never a problem). If you are thinking of returning after a particularly long period overseas, think very carefully about whether you would fit into a UK that has changed a lot over the years you have been away (not necessarily for the worse, but changed nevertheless).

So there it is. I'm not saying that my situation is the same as everyone else's – in fact, I'm probably different than many, having been away for so long (left in 1983), being a little older than most on here (I think), and having no wife and kids, nor a large extended family in the UK. I certainly wish everyone returning the best of luck, and hope it's the right decision for you – because you only have to read through posts on here to see how miserable you can be living somewhere you don't want to be.

Tableland

You'll be back! Mwa ha ha ha ha!

No just kidding, sounds like a good plan. Other reasons for leaving UK is that it is not the best place in the world to grow old, and you'll always be able to come back if you want to. I'm in HE so I'm interested in what you had to say on this.

Jerseygirl

Have you broken the news to poor Susie?

Seriously Dunroving I was expecting to hear that sooner rather than later. I wish you all the best in your quest to return to the US. Good luck.

dunroving

Well, seriously, I hope I WILL be back. My brother and I (he visited over Christmas/New Year) had a lot of long, hard talks about me being "over there", "permanently" - we are extremely close and I think the two of us have always had this idea that we'd end up as old codgers living next door to each other So, the plan is most definitely not to cut ties to the UK altogether - indeed, like some on the US boards like Jerseygirl, I hope I would be able to spend extended periods over her, especially in retirement. Being in HE in the US gives a lot of flexibility for being elswehere, especially in the summer (they are on 9-month contracts over there and only work summers if they choose to, for extra pay). I just never chose to take advantage of this before.

You say "I'm in HE so I'm interested in what you had to say on this" ... I'm not sure what "this" is ... being old in the UK? Sorry, being a bit dim.

Tableland

I mean your comparison of UK/US HE. I've never worked in the US but there are a lot of opportunities in my field there. Problem is, I want to live in Australia, where there are not nearly as many opportunities. Duh!

dunroving

Well, as much as Suzy absolutely loves running around in the mudpile that is rural Scotland, I really do think she misses being out in the backyard all day (she doesn't do well with being cooped up inside the house with a dog-sitter). As for the flying thing, she's got that down pat - she's done it three times already.

Yes, I think in my heart of hearts I've known it for a few months ... but go back 18 months and I really thought that this would be it ... which is why I wanted to post this advice on here. I think you can never be 100% sure whether you are making the right decision but I do worry sometimes that the heart rules the head too much for some people when it comes to MBTTUK ... although when that involves large extended family and grandparents etc., I can certainly see why that would supersede worries about making ends meet.

lisag8070

I'm sorry, I don't think we've met but I would just like to say I truely hope you find your way back here as soon as possible as anyone who reads your post can tell you've searched long and hard and for many months about whats the right thing to do..

Here's hoping for a speeding transatlantic crossing...

dunroving

OK, gotcha, well ... first off, it definitely seems that the immigration side of things is tougher for the US than Oz, although people in academia come under a special category of H1B visa that isn't restricted to a cap.

Here are my comparisons of UK vs US higher education:

UK's better points (I suppose I should start with the positives!):

Higher salaries - but is only an advantage if you bought your house before the late-90's, post-2000 price boom.
Teaching period can be less (all my classes this year have been crammed into 8 weeks in fall and 8 weeks this spring, for example)
Far less assessment load (most of the modules in my department have only one assessment, which I find extraordinary).

UK's worse points:

Large classes
Decreasing student standards (I don't think the students are necessarily less able than US students - though the standard of writing seems appalling to me - but their attitude towards attendance, work, punctuality seems very slack)
An obsession with regulating, standardizing, documenting and monitoring the minutiae of everything while screwing up even the most basic and obvious of things.

US better points:

Probably the #1 thing is academic freedom - you can teach your class how the hell you see fit. And no-one asks where you are if you are not in your office and not in the classroom. The assumption is if your classes are geting taught, the stuents like you, you are publishing research and getting grants, it doesn't matter when or where you do it.
Students have a great attitude (I taught in various places in the South, where they are even more polite and agreeable)
Continuous assessment means the students are engaged, are punctual, and come to class (because if they don't they know they'll be failing by week 4)
HE is better funded, so most classes in the major have 30 students or fewer.
Potsgraduate funding is very good, therefore there are lots of postgrad studnets, which helps the research culture.
Flexibility of the degree structure (this can also make things difficult - you have to advise studnets on what classes to take and when, which can be a little daunting at first).

US negative points:

Life at some of the top US universities is definitely only for the high-fliers with very robust egos. I won't name names, but I have colleagues at two of the "big guns" who say life is hell. (But most are not like this). The US is generally criticised for being workaholic (no vacations, etc.) but academia is not like that.
Salaries are generally lower (though this is mostly a function of the weak dollar - and your money definitely goes a lot further there, especially housing).
The tenure system makes job stability feel a little tenuous, and at some places it gives mean senior staff too much power over junior staff.

If you have any specific questions, be glad to deal with them via PM.

dunroving

Thanks - I read some of your posts over on the USA forum, including the one about NC. Spent 6 years in Greenville and was lucky enough to spend a lot of my time on Ocracoke Island (dog-sitting, house-sitting, and occasionally child-sitting for a friend who liked to go off on trips regularly). Below is a post from a few weeks before I left in 2006, that turned out to be somewhat predictive. The thread was titled "It ain't all bad":

I'm not usually one to "share", but I just came back from walking the dog and thought I'd relate what happened ...

I live in a small neighborhood in the US tucked away across the street from where I work. The university baseball field is just across the street and when there's a game on, you can hear the crowd (and the floodlights light up the tops of the tall trees that are everywhere in my neighborhood, it's a pretty cool sight, especially when the wind is blowing, which is often).

The game must have been exciting because I could hear the crowd were just rocking, (literally). Jimi Hendrix was blasting out into the night and everyone was clapping in time. Every now and then there would be a huge roar because of whatever was going on onfield.

The temperature was about 65 degrees, clear sky, just typical for early spring.

So, what's this got to do with anything? Well, it's just one of several reminders I've had recently, (now I'm getting ready to move back to the UK), of how many cool things there are about living in the US. When I left last time, (1999), I attended a high school softball game on a similar clear, cool spring night out in the middle of rural middle TN and it was like something out of a Hollywood movie.

So often in the forums of this site people get defensive about "their" country, or critical about the country they are leaving and I was just reminded tonight that lots of people go back to the UK not because Oz/US/Middle East or wherever country they live is parochial, unfriendly, materialistic, etc, but just because it's time to go home.

I think I've also got a feel for the "curse of the expats": nowhere is perfect and you can spend half your life reminiscing about what you don't have where you are, that you did have where you were.

I'm hoping I can get my occasional US "fix" by visiting and that I don't torture myself with thoughts of "what did I do?"

lisag8070

What a lovely post and its soo true, the longer I stay here, the more I'm getting to like their ways...(OK maybe about 30%)

I'm still very english and miss such much from back home, but I'm also happy here....go figure..

Again your posts show where your heart is...and you must always follow your heart.

Good luck Dunroving and hope to hear that your in the US very soon...

NickyP

My parents did the same thing they moved to the USA and decided after a few years to move back to the UK. Within a year they were back in the US luckily Dad's job was still available and they now have no intention of heading back to the UK. It can be an expensive experience but at the end of the day they are far more settled than they ever were before.
Good luck.
Nicky

Tangram

Best of luck mate.

Marmalade

Dunroving - good luck on your move back. From the first time I read your posts a couple months back, I thought 'hears someone that is pining after the US.' Glad you have made the decision to move back. It is probably a big relief to finally decide. I wish you much happiness with your move. Safe travels.

Jerseygirl

If I can be any help at all with things Stateside please let me know. I know NJ is a zillion miles from where you want to be...but who knows maybe you'll be flying into Newark...

JAJ

Good luck - hope it works out for you.