RedDragon2008

Introduce new gun ownership tax
Increase sales tax on ammunition
Tax NRA members

Both problems solved??? What do you think

civilservant

I think this might go down as the least useful thread this year. Never ever going to happen!

holly_1948

Agreed.

Even existing ordinary sales tax on guns and ammo might be held to be unconstitutional if challenged under the Second Amendment in view of McCulloch v. Maryland, 17 U.S. 316 (1819)
In pertinent part --
That the power to tax involves the power to destroy [is] not to be denied (Chief Justice John Marshall)

Steve_

There already is a Federal Excise Tax on ammunition, most people aren't aware of it, 10% on rifle and shotgun ammunition and 11% on handgun ammunition.

Read US v. Miller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Miller - imposing a tax on the transfer of a sawn-off shotgun does not violate the Second Amendment as a sawn-off shotgun is not a weapon used by the militia.

holly_1948

That's interesting.

I could easily see it argued that imposing a tax on ammo is an abridging of the right to keep and bear arms (which is expressly guaranteed in the constitution, unlike (for example) a needed but non-existent right to keep and read books). Since the power to tax is (legally) the power to destroy and a power to destroy is a obviously a power to abridge.

mikelincs

Does the second amendment state anything about the fact that you are able to LOAD and FIRE those arms?, if not then how could a tax be unlawful? From what it says it is the right to keep and bear arms, at no point is ammunition mentioned..

Scouse Express

There are increased taxes on Alcohol and Tobacco to pay for Healthcare Costs. - Go for Firearms and Ammo, too, to help pay Compensation and Costs for victims of Gun Violence.


Jim.

holly_1948

Well the first two are reasonable because there is no constitutional right to even be allowed alcohol or healthcare. The government could, if it chose, prohibit them.

But there is a right (Second Amendment to the US Constitution) that "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged."

And taxing is abridging after all. Perhaps the supreme law should not be that way. But the supreme law actually is that way.

holly_1948

It might, possibly, be constitutional to tax the loading of firearms, but not the possession of them.

Ammunition is arms, it is just not firearms. It can be (and is) regulated, certain types of ammo is banned in some States (eg tracer). Any ban has to pass the so-called "strict scrutiny" test of law since there is a guaranteed right involved.

If it is politically proper to ban guns then it should be done by openly repealing the second amendment. Not by misrepresenting the purpose of proposed laws (which is truthfully to take away the right of the people to keep and bear arms).

civilservant

The problem of course being that any amendment needs to be ratified by 3/4 of the states, and I'm more likely to run 100m faster than Usain Bolt than that to happen.

Scouse Express

Would it help if some of us dressed as Clowns with Bloodied Knives and started chasing you????


Jim.