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Be grateful for the NHS!

Be grateful for the NHS!

Old Feb 16th 2012, 4:09 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by sid50 View Post
yeah but u still got to shell out yr co pay a co pay in england would make most NHS patients not bother going to the ED or even their own GP
It would be just wonderful to model the NHS on the great successes of the US system.
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 4:23 pm
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by fatbrit View Post
It would be just wonderful to model the NHS on the great successes of the US system.


PS I am mad.
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 4:35 pm
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by MarylandNed View Post
Here in the US, I have access to doctors and other medical services at really short notice simply because I have a decent health insurance plan (which also adds dental, vision and prescription coverage). In the UK, I would likely have much less access to (and longer waits for) medical services.
To be fair, I think this can vary depending on where you live too. My wife needed to see a doctor (a GP, nothing fancy) a few weeks ago. She hadn't been to see her usual one for 2 years and he'd moved out of state. The first struggle was to actually find anyone taking patients. Once she found someone who was willing to take on new patients, it was a 5 week wait for an appointment unless it was an emergency.

Seeing my doctor can be a half day expedition unless you get a very early appointment. Go in at 11:00 and you'll be lucky to get called before 12:30. Another hour stuck in the little exam room and Captain Laptop will usually make an appearance an hour later, see me for 2 minutes, stare at his laptop (I'm sure he's on WebMD) and then send me for at least 3K's worth of tests, scans and X-rays. Having insurance in this town makes you look like a big, walking money bag to most docs.

I've worked in both healthcare systems. The one thing I can say about the U.S. system is that they're a lot more sensitive to costs. of course, that's just so they can make a lot more profit out of patients. In the NHS though, I came across plenty of people who thought that their funding was a bottomless pit and acted accordingly.

I wouldn't wish the U.S. system on my worst enemy though. I live in a ski town and have ski-ed since I was 8 (which was a long, long time ago). I would never go ski-ing here though. The cost of getting hurt would be catastrophic even with insurance. Back home, I once hurt myself pretty badly ski-ing and spent 3 months in hospital and another 6 months of physio recovering. Can you imagine the cost here? I know plenty of other people with the same concerns. That has to have a knock-on effect on the local economy.

This system also dis-courages people from leaving their jobs and setting up businesses that could employ people and generate taxes for the local economy. Tying health coverage to employment is a stupid state of affairs that benefits no one but the insurance companies.

The bottom line, for me at least, is that it is immoral to view people's health as something to make a profit out of. Unfortunately, in the land of "I'm alright Jack, screw you", I'm in a minority.
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 5:04 pm
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by cluedweasel View Post
To be fair, I think this can vary depending on where you live too. My wife needed to see a doctor (a GP, nothing fancy) a few weeks ago. She hadn't been to see her usual one for 2 years and he'd moved out of state. The first struggle was to actually find anyone taking patients. Once she found someone who was willing to take on new patients, it was a 5 week wait for an appointment unless it was an emergency.

Seeing my doctor can be a half day expedition unless you get a very early appointment. Go in at 11:00 and you'll be lucky to get called before 12:30. Another hour stuck in the little exam room and Captain Laptop will usually make an appearance an hour later, see me for 2 minutes, stare at his laptop (I'm sure he's on WebMD) and then send me for at least 3K's worth of tests, scans and X-rays. Having insurance in this town makes you look like a big, walking money bag to most docs.

I've worked in both healthcare systems. The one thing I can say about the U.S. system is that they're a lot more sensitive to costs. of course, that's just so they can make a lot more profit out of patients. In the NHS though, I came across plenty of people who thought that their funding was a bottomless pit and acted accordingly.

I wouldn't wish the U.S. system on my worst enemy though. I live in a ski town and have ski-ed since I was 8 (which was a long, long time ago). I would never go ski-ing here though. The cost of getting hurt would be catastrophic even with insurance. Back home, I once hurt myself pretty badly ski-ing and spent 3 months in hospital and another 6 months of physio recovering. Can you imagine the cost here? I know plenty of other people with the same concerns. That has to have a knock-on effect on the local economy.

This system also dis-courages people from leaving their jobs and setting up businesses that could employ people and generate taxes for the local economy. Tying health coverage to employment is a stupid state of affairs that benefits no one but the insurance companies.

The bottom line, for me at least, is that it is immoral to view people's health as something to make a profit out of. Unfortunately, in the land of "I'm alright Jack, screw you", I'm in a minority.

Thats what attracts healthcare workers to the US, fact patients dont get a free ride and have to pay their way.


I managed to download the recent panorama. Vast majority Americans think healthcare is a choice not a right! Also they think you should pay to see a doctor. The idea of the NHS is great its just that the patients messed it up and will eventually kill it asap.
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 5:29 pm
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by sid50 View Post
As someone who worked in healthcare in the UK I was sick to the back teeth regarding the general abuse and ungratefulness the British people had towards healthcare workers there.

Because they didnt pay anything directly for the service they had no value for it. Trying to self manage a cold was too much for them there. They would run to a GP with 5 mins of sore throat.

The US should be a wake up call for Brits. no abuse of the system there, you can ask for whatever you want just get your AMEX out beforehand.

the NHS will go eventually and it will disappear due to the abuse and demands of the consumers using it and no other reason than that!
The NHS must be much better off having employees like you leave. Bet you spent your time looking down your healthy nose at people who were ill or needed reassurance. I too worked in the NHS and some of it's problems are due to lazy, sneering, I know my rights, employees who thought because they worked for the government they could take things easy and abuse the (sick) people it should be serving. The lazy employees also took the maximum number of sick days on full pay as they could per year, whether ill or not.
By the way re the comment in post #6...it is not free.
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 5:34 pm
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by Lola-Monmouth View Post
The NHS must be much better off having employees like you leave. Bet you spent your time looking down your healthy nose at people who were ill or needed reassurance. I too worked in the NHS and some of it's problems are due to lazy, sneering, I know my rights, employees who thought because they worked for the government they could take things easy and abuse the (sick) people it should be serving. The lazy employees also took the maximum number of sick days on full pay as they could per year, whether ill or not.
By the way re the comment in post #6...it is not free.

it is free at the point of abuse *cough* should be use!

'they could take things easy and abuse the (sick) people it should be serving'

what on earth do you think the docs in the US are doing??!! As a doctor said to me the other day I dont see a patient when they walk through the door I just see $$$$ signs and it is my job to rinse as much as I can out of them lol
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 5:37 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by sid50 View Post
The idea of the NHS is great its just that the patients messed it up and will eventually kill it asap.
And you think the US system is sustainable in its current form?
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 5:37 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by sid50 View Post
why do you think the NHS is full of whining malingering hyperchondriacs? Its because its free. You think if they had to pay to get all that stuff done they would?

Hell no!!
It is NOT free. It's free at point of use.

And regarding the comment written by someone else about the price of inhalers in the US vs Scotland by someone else, just how much do you think such a drug costs? It's about the same in the UK, it's just that the payment for it doesn't come directly from your pocket at point of use.

This is not a personal attack, just trying to point out that many medications ARE very expensive, and that the users of such products genuinely have little idea of their true cost to the NHS/UK governments/tax payers.
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 5:42 pm
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by sid50 View Post
Vast majority Americans think healthcare is a choice not a right!
They're correct... it is a choice and not a right. If it was a right, everyone would be covered which, clearly, is not true.

Ian
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 5:44 pm
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by Lola-Monmouth View Post
The NHS must be much better off having employees like you leave. Bet you spent your time looking down your healthy nose at people who were ill or needed reassurance. I too worked in the NHS and some of it's problems are due to lazy, sneering, I know my rights, employees who thought because they worked for the government they could take things easy and abuse the (sick) people it should be serving. The lazy employees also took the maximum number of sick days on full pay as they could per year, whether ill or not.
By the way re the comment in post #6...it is not free.

you speak a lot of presumptious twaddle i never took a day off sick in england and if i did enjoy doing that thing then the States is the worst place to come for that kind of thing (sick leave etc). I left because of the patients rude, ungrateful 'i want everything but pay nothing attitude'

also the great thing about the states for doctors is that when annoying people like yourself walk in the door you are fare game for any clinician to fleece a few thousand bucks out of you without breaking sweat.
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 5:44 pm
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

The NHS wasn't designed to provide the service it is now expected to provide. It was also introduced at a time where individuals seemed to take a lot more responsibility for their own actions, and also new how to self medicate.

My current role is as an Emergency Dept physician (short-term contract in the UK).

It's surprising to see the number of people who attend with pain (headache, or abdominal, or joint) who have had the pain for a few hours and have not tried one single thing to relieve the pain. eg paracetamol.

And then we have the people who discover their cervix at 1am on a Sunday morning. Or vaginal bleeding - last occurred 4 weeks ago. And 4 weeks before that.
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 5:45 pm
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by fatbrit View Post
And you think the US system is sustainable in its current form?
do you see any doctors complaining about the current system? Nope neither do i!
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 5:47 pm
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by sid50 View Post
do you see any doctors complaining about the current system? Nope neither do i!
And I do. Many. Looks like we disagree.
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 5:49 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by sid50 View Post
do you see any doctors complaining about the current system? Nope neither do i!
I'd hope they would, especially if they have children.
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Old Feb 16th 2012, 5:49 pm
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Default Re: Be grateful for the NHS!

Originally Posted by Ozzidoc View Post
The NHS wasn't designed to provide the service it is now expected to provide. It was also introduced at a time where individuals seemed to take a lot more responsibility for their own actions, and also new how to self medicate.

My current role is as an Emergency Dept physician (short-term contract in the UK).

It's surprising to see the number of people who attend with pain (headache, or abdominal, or joint) who have had the pain for a few hours and have not tried one single thing to relieve the pain. eg paracetamol.

And then we have the people who discover their cervix at 1am on a Sunday morning. Or vaginal bleeding - last occurred 4 weeks ago. And 4 weeks before that.

totally agree one good thing about the US is that the cost instills some common sense which even intelligent brits in england severely lack!

however once the brit goes stateside they suddenly develop common sense and dont visit for any crap. why is that then?!
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