Goodbye USA!
Jun 26th 2007, 2:35 pm
#61
Lapine Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas in my own little world
Posts: 21,691
Re: Goodbye USA!
This is my two penneth and I'm stating it neutrally without names.
If the UCCJEA has been signed by dad, then the case will proceed in Arizona and the child will not be able to leave the jurisdiction permanently until the case is resolved.
If not, then it is possible for mom and child to return to her country and work the case from there.
Even when two parents come up with a 100% agreed-upon custody solution, that solution must be reviewed by the court to ensure that the agreement is in the best interests of the child. On nearly every occasion, a mutually agreed solution is approved by the court, but it is not a certainty. If the judge feels that any part of the custody orders would be detrimental to the child or difficult to carry out, they can order a modification. It feels so awful to have your children's fate in a stranger's hands, but that's the way it is.
After the custody agreement is approved by the court, the parents can always *choose* to ignore it *IF* they both agree to an informal modification. However this informal modification can be revoked at any time by either party, and any party can go back to court and seek that the orders be changed.
I do agree that if the child is ordered to remain in Arizona, the mother should if at all possible obtain US citizenship as soon as possible, possibly delaying the finality of the divorce until that time as a condition of having the child remain -- although citizenship requires that the parents "live together" for three years, so no legal or physical separation could be possible during this time.
IF the child is allowed to leave for England, then I'd leave immediately before anyone can change their minds.
I would give this advice to anyone
If the UCCJEA has been signed by dad, then the case will proceed in Arizona and the child will not be able to leave the jurisdiction permanently until the case is resolved.
If not, then it is possible for mom and child to return to her country and work the case from there.
Even when two parents come up with a 100% agreed-upon custody solution, that solution must be reviewed by the court to ensure that the agreement is in the best interests of the child. On nearly every occasion, a mutually agreed solution is approved by the court, but it is not a certainty. If the judge feels that any part of the custody orders would be detrimental to the child or difficult to carry out, they can order a modification. It feels so awful to have your children's fate in a stranger's hands, but that's the way it is.
After the custody agreement is approved by the court, the parents can always *choose* to ignore it *IF* they both agree to an informal modification. However this informal modification can be revoked at any time by either party, and any party can go back to court and seek that the orders be changed.
I do agree that if the child is ordered to remain in Arizona, the mother should if at all possible obtain US citizenship as soon as possible, possibly delaying the finality of the divorce until that time as a condition of having the child remain -- although citizenship requires that the parents "live together" for three years, so no legal or physical separation could be possible during this time.
IF the child is allowed to leave for England, then I'd leave immediately before anyone can change their minds.
I would give this advice to anyone
Jun 26th 2007, 3:58 pm
#62
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 38
Re: Goodbye USA!
Partystar, best of luck to you! (Almost) everybody here thinks of US Citizenship being the holy grail. I am quite happy with my green card, and despite Canada allowing dual-citizenship I still have no desire to become a USC anytime soon. There are draw-backs associated with US citizenship, like having to pay US taxes on your worldwide income even if you live abroad permanently.
In any case, all the best to you. I am sure you'll do fine.
In any case, all the best to you. I am sure you'll do fine.
Jun 26th 2007, 4:59 pm
#63
You Are All Diseased
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Farnham, UK
Posts: 4,511
Re: Goodbye USA!
Why? All a divorce lawyer will do is turn things into a complete mess and charge for the pleasure.
I would recommend they file the papers themselves and skip the lawyers, they've been mature enough to this point.
File For Uncontested Divorce: $249.00
I would recommend they file the papers themselves and skip the lawyers, they've been mature enough to this point.
File For Uncontested Divorce: $249.00
Jun 26th 2007, 5:06 pm
#64
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88,016
Re: Goodbye USA!
Why? All a divorce lawyer will do is turn things into a complete mess and charge for the pleasure.
I would recommend they file the papers themselves and skip the lawyers, they've been mature enough to this point.
File For Uncontested Divorce: $249.00
I would recommend they file the papers themselves and skip the lawyers, they've been mature enough to this point.
File For Uncontested Divorce: $249.00
Jun 26th 2007, 5:11 pm
#65
Homebody
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: HOME
Posts: 23,179
Re: Goodbye USA!
Why? All a divorce lawyer will do is turn things into a complete mess and charge for the pleasure.
I would recommend they file the papers themselves and skip the lawyers, they've been mature enough to this point.
File For Uncontested Divorce: $249.00
I would recommend they file the papers themselves and skip the lawyers, they've been mature enough to this point.
File For Uncontested Divorce: $249.00
Jun 26th 2007, 5:38 pm
#66
Tool
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Playing with the chavs
Posts: 773
Re: Goodbye USA!
Well hard decisions are often the best ones in the end....and it's often best to cut your losses as we discovered.
Oh, and welcome home (soon).
Oh, and welcome home (soon).
Jun 26th 2007, 7:06 pm
#67
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,848
Re: Goodbye USA!
I've only just spotted this post......what a crying shame Partystar...I really thought that your husband was keen to live in England. So sorry we didn't get to meet up with you in NYC due to the trains. Are you planning to return to Oxfordshire?
I don't have too much to add to what's already been posted here. I think you've probably seen my posts about my best (Aussie) friend's nightmare about her nasty divorce and her ex returning to Oz; he got a court order in Brisbane on a Sunday and had her mum and children detained by the Australian Federal Police at Sydney airport as they checked in for their return flight to the States.
I'm writing here Liz so that you can peruse the following link; it will give you lots of information about the 'Hague Convention' which is the law used by certain countries in the event of an international child custody dispute. Both the USA and UK are signatories to the Hague Convention and I urge you to read up all you can (and read the messageboards on the link) if God forbid, things become nasty between yourself and your spouse.
(Reunite is a British-registered charity aiming to give practical advice and info on international child custody disputes and abduction).
http://www.reunite.org
There is also a list on the site of lawyers who specialise in international child custody dispute cases. There are some listed for the USA and also the UK....including one law firm based in Banbury, Oxon. I hope you won't need it but the info is there in case you ever do! Probably best not to let your spouse know that you've been reading up the info though....perhaps you could use the computer in your local public library so he won't find it on your home laptop or PC and become very suspicious......
I don't have too much to add to what's already been posted here. I think you've probably seen my posts about my best (Aussie) friend's nightmare about her nasty divorce and her ex returning to Oz; he got a court order in Brisbane on a Sunday and had her mum and children detained by the Australian Federal Police at Sydney airport as they checked in for their return flight to the States.
I'm writing here Liz so that you can peruse the following link; it will give you lots of information about the 'Hague Convention' which is the law used by certain countries in the event of an international child custody dispute. Both the USA and UK are signatories to the Hague Convention and I urge you to read up all you can (and read the messageboards on the link) if God forbid, things become nasty between yourself and your spouse.
(Reunite is a British-registered charity aiming to give practical advice and info on international child custody disputes and abduction).
http://www.reunite.org
There is also a list on the site of lawyers who specialise in international child custody dispute cases. There are some listed for the USA and also the UK....including one law firm based in Banbury, Oxon. I hope you won't need it but the info is there in case you ever do! Probably best not to let your spouse know that you've been reading up the info though....perhaps you could use the computer in your local public library so he won't find it on your home laptop or PC and become very suspicious......
Last edited by Englishmum; Jun 26th 2007 at 7:12 pm.
Jun 26th 2007, 7:58 pm
#68
Thinking about it
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Mid-West
Posts: 9,435
Re: Goodbye USA!
Good luck
Jun 26th 2007, 7:59 pm
#69
Peace onion
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 5,686
Re: Goodbye USA!
Partystar,
I didn't start off with you very politely but hope to make up for that now.
I had a situation not exactly similar, but with enough similarities.
Think of the very worst scenario (which you have already done, probably countless times already), and I guarantee you it'll wont turn out the way you fear. It never does.
Somehow, things work themselves out.
It's a pity you couldn't get all this resolved without lawyers etc. But then again, down the road, you might also regard it as a blessing that you did get them involved. A lot of this will depend on your outlook and you sound like a resilient girl.
For our particular case, we never went the lawyer route. Our son is 6 years old and knows he is very well loved. We did see it a "mediator" very early on but were disgusted at how she immediately tried to stir up friction between us. We dumped her quicker than greased weasel poo.
Anyway, all the best. It'll work out, kiddo, because it has to.
I didn't start off with you very politely but hope to make up for that now.
I had a situation not exactly similar, but with enough similarities.
Think of the very worst scenario (which you have already done, probably countless times already), and I guarantee you it'll wont turn out the way you fear. It never does.
Somehow, things work themselves out.
It's a pity you couldn't get all this resolved without lawyers etc. But then again, down the road, you might also regard it as a blessing that you did get them involved. A lot of this will depend on your outlook and you sound like a resilient girl.
For our particular case, we never went the lawyer route. Our son is 6 years old and knows he is very well loved. We did see it a "mediator" very early on but were disgusted at how she immediately tried to stir up friction between us. We dumped her quicker than greased weasel poo.
Anyway, all the best. It'll work out, kiddo, because it has to.
Jun 26th 2007, 8:55 pm
#70
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,338
Re: Goodbye USA!
Good luck Partystar - all the best
Jun 27th 2007, 12:41 am
#71
Banned
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Santa Monica,CA from Birmingham, UK
Posts: 18,402
Re: Goodbye USA!
Spoke with you today Liz and I was surprised to find out the news. I'm a bit surprised your husband is willing to let go of your son and choose a career, hunting, fishing and camping over his boy. It would break my heart to give my boys up.
One thing you'll get here is some support and a lot of free advice, only you can decide what you think is best.
Best of luck.........................
One thing you'll get here is some support and a lot of free advice, only you can decide what you think is best.
Best of luck.........................
Jun 27th 2007, 12:57 am
#72
Payed up premium member
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: The desert
Posts: 2,327
Re: Goodbye USA!
Go for it, we all know it'll make you happy. I'm sure everything will work out for you back in England.
Lets meet up for a send off drink before you go.
If theres anything I can help you with you know you only need ask.
alan
Lets meet up for a send off drink before you go.
If theres anything I can help you with you know you only need ask.
alan
Jun 27th 2007, 2:26 am
#73
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Reno Nevada
Posts: 15,917
Re: Goodbye USA!
Well a lot of you 'regulars' know my story, so as you know we were planning on moving back to England in about 2 years. Well, that time has been pushed forward to the next few weeks!
I arrived back from my holiday back in England a few weeks ago. I asked my husband again if he really wanted to move back to England in 2 years time. His answer was a long pause & then a 'No'. Ever since I told him I couldn't live in America, he said he would move back to England with us, after he'd done a couple of years in his new job as a fireman.
Well that was all a lie. He finally admitted that he didn't want to go back to England & that he just said he would, because he really thought he could change my mind about living here. While we were away, he finally figured out that I wasn't going to change my mind & decided he was going to tell me after his graduation ceremony, but as I asked him first, he decided to tell me then.
He also said he didn't want the hassle of finding another job as a fireman over in England, as he'd worked so hard to get the one he's got now. He admitted that he was choosing his career over his family. He said a lot of other things too, which don't really make sense, however, they're his reasons.
I was furious & so upset, I really have no one here to turn to. I have a lot of friends here, but they're not the great friends I have back home. I had one amazing friend here, who I clicked with straight away, but she moved to Texas about a month ago, so I was pretty much alone. I just wanted to go back home.
Then the paranoia set it, what if he tried to stop me moving back to England with our son? Questions & scenarios buzzed around my head for days, I couldn't eat & I couldn't sleep. I put on 7lbs back in England, eating all that good food. I lost it all in the couple of days after this happened; it was the best diet I'd ever been on!
I looked up as much info as I could, but without getting a lawyer, it was hard to find the information I needed online. So with all that I decided to tell Devin what I was thinking, about going home. We sat down & wrote out a little 'contract' with regards to our son, our home, our possessions etc. After that I felt much better, the paranoia subsided slightly & I felt that, although it wasn't a proper legal document, it should stand for something. We signed & kept a copy.
So with that in mind, the divorce is going quite smoothly at the moment. Apparently I should be able to leave quite soon. We are both trying to be fair, for the sake of our son.
I'll keep you all updated with our progress & will let you know when we're going back home. If anyone has any advice or any info on shipping, I'd love to hear it. I also wanted to say how great it has been to have BE & all of you here, it's been a great help & I really appreciate it.
I arrived back from my holiday back in England a few weeks ago. I asked my husband again if he really wanted to move back to England in 2 years time. His answer was a long pause & then a 'No'. Ever since I told him I couldn't live in America, he said he would move back to England with us, after he'd done a couple of years in his new job as a fireman.
Well that was all a lie. He finally admitted that he didn't want to go back to England & that he just said he would, because he really thought he could change my mind about living here. While we were away, he finally figured out that I wasn't going to change my mind & decided he was going to tell me after his graduation ceremony, but as I asked him first, he decided to tell me then.
He also said he didn't want the hassle of finding another job as a fireman over in England, as he'd worked so hard to get the one he's got now. He admitted that he was choosing his career over his family. He said a lot of other things too, which don't really make sense, however, they're his reasons.
I was furious & so upset, I really have no one here to turn to. I have a lot of friends here, but they're not the great friends I have back home. I had one amazing friend here, who I clicked with straight away, but she moved to Texas about a month ago, so I was pretty much alone. I just wanted to go back home.
Then the paranoia set it, what if he tried to stop me moving back to England with our son? Questions & scenarios buzzed around my head for days, I couldn't eat & I couldn't sleep. I put on 7lbs back in England, eating all that good food. I lost it all in the couple of days after this happened; it was the best diet I'd ever been on!
I looked up as much info as I could, but without getting a lawyer, it was hard to find the information I needed online. So with all that I decided to tell Devin what I was thinking, about going home. We sat down & wrote out a little 'contract' with regards to our son, our home, our possessions etc. After that I felt much better, the paranoia subsided slightly & I felt that, although it wasn't a proper legal document, it should stand for something. We signed & kept a copy.
So with that in mind, the divorce is going quite smoothly at the moment. Apparently I should be able to leave quite soon. We are both trying to be fair, for the sake of our son.
I'll keep you all updated with our progress & will let you know when we're going back home. If anyone has any advice or any info on shipping, I'd love to hear it. I also wanted to say how great it has been to have BE & all of you here, it's been a great help & I really appreciate it.
I truly hope you find happiness and peace.
Jun 27th 2007, 1:52 pm
#74
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,382
Re: Goodbye USA!
I'm very sorry to read of the demise of your marriage. It is never easy to end a relationship and even harder still, I would imagine, to end one where love is still alive.
I don't know your story on how you met your husband, why your choose to live in the US (imagine it was starry eyed love that brought you here) and so sorry that starry eyed love isn't enough to keep you besides the man you profess to still love.
For those of us who marry foreigners and ask them to move to our country to live, we can't fathom that they might not enjoy living here or that living here with the one they love is not enough to make them stay. Since your hubby is the main breadwinner in the family and has employment which is specialized and not easily adaptable to another state, let alone country, I can understand his decision not to move. I can also understand your missing your family and friends and the customs you are familiar with. Not easy to make friends in a new place or to assimilate to a country that you deplore.
Wishing you, your husband and your son a quick and easy divorce and custody agreement. May you find happiness and fulfillment back in the UK and never regret allowing your love to slip away.
I don't know your story on how you met your husband, why your choose to live in the US (imagine it was starry eyed love that brought you here) and so sorry that starry eyed love isn't enough to keep you besides the man you profess to still love.
For those of us who marry foreigners and ask them to move to our country to live, we can't fathom that they might not enjoy living here or that living here with the one they love is not enough to make them stay. Since your hubby is the main breadwinner in the family and has employment which is specialized and not easily adaptable to another state, let alone country, I can understand his decision not to move. I can also understand your missing your family and friends and the customs you are familiar with. Not easy to make friends in a new place or to assimilate to a country that you deplore.
Wishing you, your husband and your son a quick and easy divorce and custody agreement. May you find happiness and fulfillment back in the UK and never regret allowing your love to slip away.
Jun 27th 2007, 4:15 pm
#75
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88,016
Re: Goodbye USA!
John Stang: I have reported your post to admin...it was unpleasant and unnecessary. Please stay in the forum for your age group...The Youth Club.
