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Gaaah! Employers!!

Gaaah! Employers!!

Old Apr 5th 2010, 2:35 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

Before I got my USC I carried my GC around with me everywhere, I worked (mostly) on bases and was only ever asked to show the GC for one interview. Apart from that, even in airports, I never once had to show it. (could be that we usually travelled on Gov't orders?)

I really would have had no issues in showing the GC if asked for it, my thinking is, I am going for the interview because I want a job, it's up to the employer to decide if they want to give me the job, I am prepared to show any documentation they ask for in order to get that job
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Old Apr 5th 2010, 2:37 pm
  #47  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

Originally Posted by anotherlimey
If ICE turn up to your place of work and you don't have it you'll be sent home to get it!

Speaking from experience here.
Maybe I've led a sheltered existence since moving here.
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Old Apr 5th 2010, 2:37 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

Originally Posted by Englishtart
I really would have had no issues in showing the GC if asked for it, my thinking is, I am going for the interview because I want a job, it's up to the employer to decide if they want to give me the job, I am prepared to show any documentation they ask for in order to get that job
Smart lady. Any contrary behavior, in my opinion, is little more than biting off ones nose to spite ones face.
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Old Apr 5th 2010, 3:04 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

Originally Posted by dakota44
Smart lady. Any contrary behavior, in my opinion, is little more than biting off ones nose to spite ones face.
Well exactly...

What are the employment laws like in other States? In Indiana they are heavily loaded in favour of the Employer. They can do pretty much what they like.

Good luck with any lawsuit. I can see it now.
Employee: They asked for my GC when they didn't have the right to.
Employer: We are really worried about employing illegals and wanted to double check.
Judge: Fair enough - case dismissed.

Obviously I could be (very!!!) wrong but I know who I'd be betting on to win the case.

As for carrying your GC around with you? I don't bother. It's at home in a safe. I am now in the habit of carrying ID (ie driving licence) around with me - but GC? No point. I'll live with the guilt of breaking the law. If it's needed I'll go home and get it (amazingly today I left the house without it for the 1st time ever....)
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Old Apr 5th 2010, 3:06 pm
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

Originally Posted by anotherlimey
If ICE turn up to your place of work and you don't have it you'll be sent home to get it!
I read that as "if ICE suspect that you may be here illegally, they'll give you an opportunity to do a runner".
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Old Apr 5th 2010, 3:21 pm
  #51  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

Originally Posted by TimberHut
Well exactly...

What are the employment laws like in other States? In Indiana they are heavily loaded in favour of the Employer. They can do pretty much what they like.

Good luck with any lawsuit. I can see it now.
Employee: They asked for my GC when they didn't have the right to.
Employer: We are really worried about employing illegals and wanted to double check.
Judge: Fair enough - case dismissed.

Obviously I could be (very!!!) wrong but I know who I'd be betting on to win the case.

As for carrying your GC around with you? I don't bother. It's at home in a safe. I am now in the habit of carrying ID (ie driving licence) around with me - but GC? No point. I'll live with the guilt of breaking the law. If it's needed I'll go home and get it (amazingly today I left the house without it for the 1st time ever....)
As fatbrit pointed out, at the point in time where you are showing an employer documents to fulfill the I-9, you have already been offered the job (I've never handed over any I-9 docs until the first day on the job). If you show them the docs (i.e. driver's license and normal SS card) for the I-9, and then upon further review ask you for your green card, you are within your rights to refuse as you've already shown them the required docs to prove work eligibility. Obviously if you don't show it (for whatever reason), they could decide to then fire you - but you could then sue them. The set of docs acceptable for the I-9 is federal law, not state, so the same rules apply in every state.

If you want the job badly enough, obviously you'll comply, but it chaps my ass that employers are breaking the law and getting away with it.
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Old Apr 5th 2010, 3:37 pm
  #52  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

Why be a dick?, GC is the first thing I would show.
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Old Apr 5th 2010, 5:01 pm
  #53  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

Originally Posted by sunflwrgrl13
As fatbrit pointed out, at the point in time where you are showing an employer documents to fulfill the I-9, you have already been offered the job (I've never handed over any I-9 docs until the first day on the job). If you show them the docs (i.e. driver's license and normal SS card) for the I-9, and then upon further review ask you for your green card, you are within your rights to refuse as you've already shown them the required docs to prove work eligibility. Obviously if you don't show it (for whatever reason), they could decide to then fire you - but you could then sue them. The set of docs acceptable for the I-9 is federal law, not state, so the same rules apply in every state.

If you want the job badly enough, obviously you'll comply, but it chaps my ass that employers are breaking the law and getting away with it.
It chaps some of our asses that someone would be so seriously opposed to presenting a green card that the country was willing to bestow upon them. As some have mentioned, they present it proudly. As for the lawsuit, doubt it would be a wise course of action. All the attendant press, your name in the paper. I can see the situation arising where a potential employer reviewing your resume recognizes the name of someone who sued a company because it was, perhaps in more paranoia than necessary about ICE, wanting to protect itself. The resume, one suspects, would end up in the circular file. That's where I'd put it. No one wants a shit disturber on staff who might then sue them for some minor irritation at the water cooler. If asked for the green card after being hired, it is not discrimination because you have already been hired with full knowledge that you are not a citizen. It is merely an employer being, perhaps, over protective of self interest in avoiding problems with undocumented workers. Sometimes we just have to roll with minor inconveniences and not blow things out of proportion.

There is a huge business in providing false documents, including the revered I-9 as well as SS cards and even green cards. I don't blame any employer for wanting as much as they can get in the way of proof of legal working status. It's a major hassle for businesses and hopefully E verify will help to cure the problem.

Last edited by dakota44; Apr 5th 2010 at 5:11 pm.
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Old Apr 5th 2010, 6:31 pm
  #54  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

Originally Posted by dakota44
It chaps some of our asses that someone would be so seriously opposed to presenting a green card that the country was willing to bestow upon them. As some have mentioned, they present it proudly. As for the lawsuit, doubt it would be a wise course of action. All the attendant press, your name in the paper. I can see the situation arising where a potential employer reviewing your resume recognizes the name of someone who sued a company because it was, perhaps in more paranoia than necessary about ICE, wanting to protect itself. The resume, one suspects, would end up in the circular file. That's where I'd put it. No one wants a shit disturber on staff who might then sue them for some minor irritation at the water cooler. If asked for the green card after being hired, it is not discrimination because you have already been hired with full knowledge that you are not a citizen. It is merely an employer being, perhaps, over protective of self interest in avoiding problems with undocumented workers. Sometimes we just have to roll with minor inconveniences and not blow things out of proportion.

There is a huge business in providing false documents, including the revered I-9 as well as SS cards and even green cards. I don't blame any employer for wanting as much as they can get in the way of proof of legal working status. It's a major hassle for businesses and hopefully E verify will help to cure the problem.
I don't disagree you with you Dakota, but let's make it legal for them to do so because currently it isn't. I hope e-verify does actually work the way it's supposed to. The biggest thing that bothers me is that PRs and, yes, even natz citizens, are sometimes treated as 2nd class people always having to present some document as proof of status.

Would you be offended if you were asked to present your birth cert to prove you were born in the US to every Tom, Dick & Harry? I know I sure as heck would. My husband has to show his university, every damn year to the same damn office, proof that he is a natz. citizen and didn't have to register for Selective Service. You'd think after one faxed copy of these docs, someone could update their records so he wouldn't have to go through the hassle year after year. And this is just one relatively minor example of how immigrants are being treated differently.
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Old Apr 5th 2010, 6:58 pm
  #55  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

Originally Posted by sunflwrgrl13
I don't disagree you with you Dakota, but let's make it legal for them to do so because currently it isn't. I hope e-verify does actually work the way it's supposed to. The biggest thing that bothers me is that PRs and, yes, even natz citizens, are sometimes treated as 2nd class people always having to present some document as proof of status.

Would you be offended if you were asked to present your birth cert to prove you were born in the US to every Tom, Dick & Harry? I know I sure as heck would. My husband has to show his university, every damn year to the same damn office, proof that he is a natz. citizen and didn't have to register for Selective Service. You'd think after one faxed copy of these docs, someone could update their records so he wouldn't have to go through the hassle year after year. And this is just one relatively minor example of how immigrants are being treated differently.
Given the number of illegals in the U.S. and the fervor some have about the problem, it isn't surprising that document requests have become almost oppressive. Bureaucracy, whether governmental or institutional, is always a pain. Trust me, it is worse in other places. In Peru you can go to any governmental office and get three different stories from three different people about what documentation you need. It just gets down to the fact that it exists, persists, is entrenched and not much will ever be done to solve it. Easier to live with it than to stress about it. Far more stressful things to deal with in life.
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Old Apr 5th 2010, 9:23 pm
  #56  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

I won't let Target scan my drivers license...but I will surely let an employer see my GC if its for a job

and yes, I do carry my GC with me as advised by my attorneys and the little letter USCIS sent me
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Old Apr 6th 2010, 12:02 am
  #57  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

I don't carry my green card anywhere - it's in a safe at home.
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Old Apr 6th 2010, 3:04 am
  #58  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

When I came across this thread, I immediately thought of a post I'd made a while back about questions that potential employers can/can't ask job applicants. I did a quick search and discovered that I'd made that post exactly 2 years ago today - creepy!

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...y+HR+interview

Please check out the link and in particular, what is listed under "CITIZENSHIP".

Bottom line is, employers CANNOT ask you for your GC if you can otherwise provide the acceptable documents that the I-9 requires. It doesn't matter whether the GC is in the person's wallet or back home tucked away in the freezer. They can't ask for it, full stop.

~ Jenney
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Old Apr 6th 2010, 3:07 am
  #59  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

Originally Posted by Jenney & Mark
When I came across this thread, I immediately thought of a post I'd made a while back about questions that potential employers can/can't ask job applicants. I did a quick search and discovered that I'd made that post exactly 2 years ago today - creepy!

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...y+HR+interview

Please check out the link and in particular, what is listed under "CITIZENSHIP".

Bottom line is, employers CANNOT ask you for your GC if you can otherwise provide the acceptable documents that the I-9 requires. It doesn't matter whether the GC is in the person's wallet or back home tucked away in the freezer. They can't ask for it, full stop.

~ Jenney
Not really the point.
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Old Apr 6th 2010, 12:05 pm
  #60  
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Default Re: Gaaah! Employers!!

Originally Posted by Jenney & Mark
When I came across this thread, I immediately thought of a post I'd made a while back about questions that potential employers can/can't ask job applicants. I did a quick search and discovered that I'd made that post exactly 2 years ago today - creepy!

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...y+HR+interview

Please check out the link and in particular, what is listed under "CITIZENSHIP".

Bottom line is, employers CANNOT ask you for your GC if you can otherwise provide the acceptable documents that the I-9 requires. It doesn't matter whether the GC is in the person's wallet or back home tucked away in the freezer. They can't ask for it, full stop.

~ Jenney

I don't think the legality of an employee asking for the GC is in question, it's more that if they did, is it a big deal to show it to them?
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