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Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Old Dec 17th 2005, 4:18 pm
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Default Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

This post might get shifted to the Immigration section, but I wanted to post it here first so my fellow Green Card holders read this horror story.

Found this blog entry on Blogcritics.org.
It was posted by Sadi Ranson-Polizzotti who came over here and got her GC many years ago when she was a kid and before the goverment started changing everything - and I mean everything.

Excerpt from the blog:
....The Green Card I got was legal and had an expiration date that said NA and stated specifically that it did not expire.

Now, at some point, the law changed such that for every immigrant, no matter that your Green Card may say it does not expire, you must still renew said card every ten years. I certainly didn't get a press release and I tell you, it would be some comfort to know that the INS actually tracked immigrants enough that a letter would or could be sent to the current home address.

Hell, if Sears and Neiman Marcus can LL Bean can find me, why can't the government? And so, my tale begins here, because as I was coming back into the country after going home to the UK, a customs officer told me "Ma'am, please step aside."

I'm not one to argue with a man with a gun on his hip or anyone really, so I did as he said. He then explained to me that he had every right under the law to put me right on a plane and send me back to England because my Green Card was no longer valid and had expired....
Please take a moment to read the whole and very sad tale.
One that is the very dictionary definition of bureaucracy.

Link:
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/12/17/002132.php
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Old Dec 17th 2005, 9:02 pm
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Originally Posted by Webbie
This post might get shifted to the Immigration section, but I wanted to post it here first so my fellow Green Card holders read this horror story.

Found this blog entry on Blogcritics.org.
It was posted by Sadi Ranson-Polizzotti who came over here and got her GC many years ago when she was a kid and before the goverment started changing everything - and I mean everything.

Excerpt from the blog:

Please take a moment to read the whole and very sad tale.
One that is the very dictionary definition of bureaucracy.

Link:
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/12/17/002132.php
OK, I've got nothing going at work today and have read half the page.

Are you *sure* you want comments?
I don't see the horror story yet.
edit: oops, that was the end. I do not see the horror. I see a woman who failed to keep up, even knowing she was a guest resident in a foreign country.

Gov't couldn't find her? I wonder if she has diligently filed AR-11 after every move? (not that they would've sent out a letter)
Nothing major happens when these Green Cards turn up.. she did what was required, so what is the big deal? I smell a drama queen.

Last edited by meauxna; Dec 17th 2005 at 9:05 pm.
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Old Dec 17th 2005, 9:26 pm
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Thumbs down Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

I didn't read the entire blog entry but this woman seems intelligent enough yet in all her years of living in the US, hadn't applied for citizenship. Plus, she's married to an American man too so she had ample opportunities to get dual citizenship. Also, she refers to the US as "our" (i.e. her) country but she's only a Permanent Resident.

Ignorance of the change of law that meant she was supposed to renew her GC every 10 years doesn't serve her well either, in my book.

She's making all this fuss in her blog which only makes her look more foolish because she has dealt with the USCIS which exactly what many, many of us (Brits and other would-be immigrants) have and are doing but without the assistance of an attorney.

I'm not loosing any sleep over this lady's USCIS experience...



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Old Dec 17th 2005, 9:32 pm
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Originally Posted by NC Penguin
I didn't read the entire blog entry but this woman seems intelligent enough yet in all her years of living in the US, hadn't applied for citizenship. Plus, she's married to an American man too so she had ample opportunities to get dual citizenship. Also, she refers to the US as "our" (i.e. her) country but she's only a Permanent Resident.

Ignorance of the change of law that meant she was supposed to renew her GC every 10 years doesn't serve her well either, in my book.

She's making all this fuss in her blog which only makes her look more foolish because she has dealt with the USCIS which exactly what many, many of us (Brits and other would-be immigrants) have and are doing but without the assistance of an attorney.

I'm not loosing any sleep over this lady's USCIS experience...



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Let's not forget that this lady never before in her life had to deal with INS/USCIS. I think those of us who have been battling this monster may find it difficult to comprehend the naivity of someone like that. And yet, until about a year ago, I was just the same. People who've never had to deal with this system can be forgiven for supposing that it might be 'logical' or 'reasonable' or take their personal circumstances into account.

Also, whether or not to apply for US citizenship is a personal choice. It should be possible to live here legally without crossing that line.

It shoudn't take 2 years, lawyers and all this stress to correct a simple oversight. IMHO anyway...
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Old Dec 17th 2005, 9:40 pm
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Originally Posted by meauxna
OK, I've got nothing going at work today and have read half the page.

Are you *sure* you want comments?
I don't see the horror story yet.
edit: oops, that was the end. I do not see the horror. I see a woman who failed to keep up, even knowing she was a guest resident in a foreign country.

Gov't couldn't find her? I wonder if she has diligently filed AR-11 after every move? (not that they would've sent out a letter)
Nothing major happens when these Green Cards turn up.. she did what was required, so what is the big deal? I smell a drama queen.
Funny, I see a bunch of A-holes who work for us. Fink they call them Civil (Odd because they are always uncivil) Servants. I had my GC for more then 17 years, it was a Perm card no renewal needed. The USCIS always had my current address. Never ever ever received a letter stating I needed to renew my GC. Never ever got stopped at immigration. In fact have read several articles, about GC renewal & that one of these days, the Gov will get around to renewing my card. They never did. Glad I became a USC, don't need to deal with them.
Reg. Frank R.
PS. I believe there are thousands & thousands of horror stories out there, even though this one may or may not be true.
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Old Dec 17th 2005, 9:42 pm
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Originally Posted by Elvira
Let's not forget that this lady never before in her life had to deal with INS/USCIS. I think those of us who have been battling this monster may find it difficult to comprehend the naivity of someone like that. And yet, until about a year ago, I was just the same. People who've never had to deal with this system can be forgiven for supposing that it might be 'logical' or 'reasonable' or take their personal circumstances into account.

Also, whether or not to apply for US citizenship is a personal choice. It should be possible to live here legally without crossing that line.

It shoudn't take 2 years, lawyers and all this stress to correct a simple oversight. IMHO anyway...
Well Put.
Reg. Frank R.
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Old Dec 17th 2005, 9:47 pm
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Originally Posted by Elvira
Let's not forget that this lady never before in her life had to deal with INS/USCIS. I think those of us who have been battling this monster may find it difficult to comprehend the naivity of someone like that. And yet, until about a year ago, I was just the same. People who've never had to deal with this system can be forgiven for supposing that it might be 'logical' or 'reasonable' or take their personal circumstances into account.

Also, whether or not to apply for US citizenship is a personal choice. It should be possible to live here legally without crossing that line.

It shoudn't take 2 years, lawyers and all this stress to correct a simple oversight. IMHO anyway...
Ah but she's been dealing with Federal and State bureaucracy ever since she moved to the US as legal resident so she can't claim ignorance of all the paperwork, cost and slow process. e.g. IRS, DMV (or state equivalent), showing ID when buying alcohol, paying city and state property taxes and other taxes, etc...



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Old Dec 17th 2005, 10:19 pm
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Originally Posted by NC Penguin
Ah but she's been dealing with Federal and State bureaucracy ever since she moved to the US as legal resident so she can't claim ignorance of all the paperwork, cost and slow process. e.g. IRS, DMV (or state equivalent), showing ID when buying alcohol, paying city and state property taxes and other taxes, etc...



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I'm with Elvira on this one.

You're comparing filing your tax forms and standing in line at the DMV with actually dealing with the INS. Might as well compare apples and moonfruit.
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Old Dec 17th 2005, 10:25 pm
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Originally Posted by NC Penguin
Ah but she's been dealing with Federal and State bureaucracy ever since she moved to the US as legal resident so she can't claim ignorance of all the paperwork, cost and slow process. e.g. IRS, DMV (or state equivalent), showing ID when buying alcohol, paying city and state property taxes and other taxes, etc...



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Ah but that's the whole point! She moved here as a minor, and her mother dealt with all the INS paperwork. She herself never had to put pen to paper or anyting else to get that supposedly 'valid indefinitely' Green Card.

I'm not sure where the DMV and buying booze with ID fits into all this...
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Old Dec 17th 2005, 10:40 pm
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Originally Posted by NC Penguin
Ah but she's been dealing with Federal and State bureaucracy ever since she moved to the US as legal resident so she can't claim ignorance of all the paperwork, cost and slow process. e.g. IRS, DMV (or state equivalent), showing ID when buying alcohol, paying city and state property taxes and other taxes, etc...



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No way, IRS, DMV etc are like pussycats, kind, warm, educated & all around nice people compared with USCIS or its predecessor. I was half lucky I did most of my dealings pre 9/11. Also did my GC in London. I feel sorry for a lot of the people, who have to deal with the petty minded, incompetents in the USA, USCIS. 1 800 misinformation line, is a prime example.
PS. Not just US Gov, this goes for the rest of the world I am sure.
Reg. Frank R.
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Old Dec 17th 2005, 11:35 pm
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Ok, let's review then.

Part One- The Backstory: blah blah blah, story story story. Note the forshadowing of victim status in "I just remember the push to go, so it wasn't really my choice."

Part Two- The Real Beginning: She's coming through the airport and is told of the new rule. Sufficient? No. She should've been sent a press release, or tracked down (did I mention AR-11?) Officer convinces her that indeed, she is required to update her Green Card. Whining ensues. Then she goes and alarms her British/US friends. I still don't understand this:

In fact, none of my British friends knew and it was I, the bearer of bad news, who told them all that they were not illegal immigrants - the pejorative term, 'wet backs' as customs would call us, no matter where we are from (*not my term - I'm simply repeating what I myself was recently called).

I have never seen a group of Episcopalians so upset and distraught. Tanqueray & Tonic was poured and consumed in large amounts after church in the church garden while we discussed what to do about our Green card situation. So many of us had just discovered that we were, in fact, "parolees" - people without any real legal status in the States who can be, as some have been, deported at any moment.
Who called her a wetback?
Who told her she is a parolee? Is she a parolee? Deported? *Any PR* can be deported. She presented a valid entry document in her 'expired' Green Card and was admitted, most liekly as a PR, not a parolee.

Part Three- Solving the Problem: O the tragedy, she can not renew her Permanent Resident status online! She has to make an appointment and go to an office! The information is hard to find (the uscis.gov 'Duh Department' in the form of 'How Do I Renew My Green Card' is very straightforward). OK, so we have to make an appointment, find the office (guess she doesn't have mapquest) and buy a money order. Upset that they won't take cash or personal checks, not thinking that there might be a good reason behind this.

Well, I can't even say "our" anymore, can I? I've been told to "get out". I've been told "I don't belong here." I've been told all sorts of nasty things by people who just don't think I have a right to be here,
No idea who told her this, or in what context. By adding this to her story, and the wetback comment earlier, she leads the reader to conclude that the Immigration service is telling her this. I have a suspicion that one has nothing to do with the other.

Now, she gets some famously bad info from the officer. That *is* unfortunate. I tend to believe that the fee information was correct on the website, based on past performance, but we'll take her word for it.

So a lawyer is the appropriate response to a fee error? Well, OK. Not what I would do, but I don't have her self-confessed fears:
"INS had always scared me for illogical reasons"

Now, she misses the changeover date for a new process---bad luck!
But no. This is reported as "We would have to start all over again and this time, by mail."
Nothing has to be started over.. put it in an envelope and put some postage on it!
(oh geez.. there were two attorneys!)

Oh my.
I need a stamp in my passport so that I am truly "legal" in this country, that is "officially legal" since I am legal if I am married to an American (note, not a marriage of convenience, etc, but one of great love, as anyone who knows us knows...).
Really? Who knew?
But, alas, she went for the stamp before she had a NOA/receipt of filing, or any proof that she is who she says she is (for immigration purposes), but USCIS should just take her word for it.

Now, despite retaining counsel, she calls the Misinformation line (a reasonable error) and misunderstands what she is told. Or misinterprets it, or whatever. Unless there is something she did NOT add (very possible) she is not 'illegal' beyond not having proof of her status. At this point, she's still a PR.

And then more whining ensues.
There are people I 'know' online who *never* got a physical Green Card. I could point you with certainty to one who is an American citizen now and never got a card. The card is just a card. If you are a Permanent Resident, that is not taken away because your documentation expired, got lost or burned up in a fire. If any of those things had happened to this woman, she would've needed to replace her card, and would have found the same procedure. Should there be a law against losing documents?

The worst part of this blog entry is that DESPITE her horrific ordeal, which she has barely survived, in her attempts to 'help' her friends, or others who stumble on her information, she chooses to restate bad or potentially dated information instead of simply pointing the reader to the page with the correct information.
Her lack of personal responsibility isn't that unique. She identifies as American, so I would think it natural to apply to be a legal US citizen. It's not like she lives in a vacuum. Her mother has naturalized, so unless she never talks to mom, *something* uscis-related came up in conversation. Does she expect that nothing ever changes? Photo specs, people's hairdos, processes.. change happens all the time. She doesn't say how long she has been here, but we are given the impression it's been awhile.
And, for someone as internet savvy as to 'blog' (gods help me, my dad wants to 'blog'--he heard it was cool) doesn't anyone find it strange that she wouldn't ask these questions online? Well, ok, maybe that's a reach.

Given her frame of mind, I don't have the heart to remind her that she STILL doesn't 'get' it.
I can now travel, work, I can live in the United States without fear of deportation.
I think she could be in for a rude shock if she gets nicked with a little weed, or kills someone while driving drunk or any of the other weird things that get people in trouble.

Now, in case you all think I really am a heartless witch, reminders that I went through immigration to a country who doesn't have the courtesy of using the same *alphabet* as me, and while weird red-tape and language problems happened to us, chasing around offices that were never open, or had moved etc etc we chose to treat it as a laugh, an adventure. And I would *never* trust just one answer, from anyone there, and even though my 'green card' is still valid for that country, I'm not sure how secure I would feel just using it as an entry document or work permit without checking with someone. Hey, the rules might have changed in the couple of years that I've been away.
mo

PS: yes, I am at work with nothing else to do today!

PPS: these are just the errors that could've been confirmed on the uscis.gov website. The stuff about blue/black ink is a bit of a reach, even though that information IS available.

Last edited by meauxna; Dec 17th 2005 at 11:43 pm.
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Old Dec 17th 2005, 11:50 pm
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Originally Posted by meauxna
Ok, let's review then.

Part One- The Backstory: blah blah blah, story story story. Note the forshadowing of victim status in "I just remember the push to go, so it wasn't really my choice."

Part Two- The Real Beginning: She's coming through the airport and is told of the new rule. Sufficient? No. She should've been sent a press release, or tracked down (did I mention AR-11?) Officer convinces her that indeed, she is required to update her Green Card. Whining ensues. Then she goes and alarms her British/US friends. I still don't understand this:



Who called her a wetback?
Who told her she is a parolee? Is she a parolee? Deported? *Any PR* can be deported. She presented a valid entry document in her 'expired' Green Card and was admitted, most liekly as a PR, not a parolee.

Part Three- Solving the Problem: O the tragedy, she can not renew her Permanent Resident status online! She has to make an appointment and go to an office! The information is hard to find (the uscis.gov 'Duh Department' in the form of 'How Do I Renew My Green Card' is very straightforward). OK, so we have to make an appointment, find the office (guess she doesn't have mapquest) and buy a money order. Upset that they won't take cash or personal checks, not thinking that there might be a good reason behind this.



No idea who told her this, or in what context. By adding this to her story, and the wetback comment earlier, she leads the reader to conclude that the Immigration service is telling her this. I have a suspicion that one has nothing to do with the other.

Now, she gets some famously bad info from the officer. That *is* unfortunate. I tend to believe that the fee information was correct on the website, based on past performance, but we'll take her word for it.

So a lawyer is the appropriate response to a fee error? Well, OK. Not what I would do, but I don't have her self-confessed fears:
"INS had always scared me for illogical reasons"

Now, she misses the changeover date for a new process---bad luck!
But no. This is reported as "We would have to start all over again and this time, by mail."
Nothing has to be started over.. put it in an envelope and put some postage on it!
(oh geez.. there were two attorneys!)

Oh my.

Really? Who knew?
But, alas, she went for the stamp before she had a NOA/receipt of filing, or any proof that she is who she says she is (for immigration purposes), but USCIS should just take her word for it.

Now, despite retaining counsel, she calls the Misinformation line (a reasonable error) and misunderstands what she is told. Or misinterprets it, or whatever. Unless there is something she did NOT add (very possible) she is not 'illegal' beyond not having proof of her status. At this point, she's still a PR.

And then more whining ensues.
There are people I 'know' online who *never* got a physical Green Card. I could point you with certainty to one who is an American citizen now and never got a card. The card is just a card. If you are a Permanent Resident, that is not taken away because your documentation expired, got lost or burned up in a fire. If any of those things had happened to this woman, she would've needed to replace her card, and would have found the same procedure. Should there be a law against losing documents?

The worst part of this blog entry is that DESPITE her horrific ordeal, which she has barely survived, in her attempts to 'help' her friends, or others who stumble on her information, she chooses to restate bad or potentially dated information instead of simply pointing the reader to the page with the correct information.
Her lack of personal responsibility isn't that unique. She identifies as American, so I would think it natural to apply to be a legal US citizen. It's not like she lives in a vacuum. Her mother has naturalized, so unless she never talks to mom, *something* uscis-related came up in conversation. Does she expect that nothing ever changes? Photo specs, people's hairdos, processes.. change happens all the time. She doesn't say how long she has been here, but we are given the impression it's been awhile.
And, for someone as internet savvy as to 'blog' (gods help me, my dad wants to 'blog'--he heard it was cool) doesn't anyone find it strange that she wouldn't ask these questions online? Well, ok, maybe that's a reach.

Given her frame of mind, I don't have the heart to remind her that she STILL doesn't 'get' it.

I think she could be in for a rude shock if she gets nicked with a little weed, or kills someone while driving drunk or any of the other weird things that get people in trouble.

Now, in case you all think I really am a heartless witch, reminders that I went through immigration to a country who doesn't have the courtesy of using the same *alphabet* as me, and while weird red-tape and language problems happened to us, chasing around offices that were never open, or had moved etc etc we chose to treat it as a laugh, an adventure. And I would *never* trust just one answer, from anyone there, and even though my 'green card' is still valid for that country, I'm not sure how secure I would feel just using it as an entry document or work permit without checking with someone. Hey, the rules might have changed in the couple of years that I've been away.
mo

PS: yes, I am at work with nothing else to do today!

PPS: these are just the errors that could've been confirmed on the uscis.gov website. The stuff about blue/black ink is a bit of a reach, even though that information IS available.
WOW!
reg. Frank R.
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Old Dec 18th 2005, 12:54 am
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Double wow, that level of whining would certainly confuse any Aussie who would naturally assume she was a Pom.

I was at a party last night, during the second bottle of a very acceptable Pinot Noire, some neighbours were recounting the story of their Canadian LPR Mother, in her 80's, who have been a LPR for I think 60 years.

Anyway recently went to Canada and had similar issues getting back in. After 2 hours they let her in, cut off the corner of her GC and told her to get a new one.

I also asked why she had not naturalised, they said it was because she would not have been allowed to retain Canadian Citizenship. I said that was not the case now. Her son who I guess was 60, said that he had to make a choice when he was 18, not allowed both. No idea what the rules were 40 years ago, I said he could probably regain both if he wanted to.

PS Why do Americans always cut the nose of the cheese?
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Old Dec 18th 2005, 1:22 am
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Originally Posted by meauxna
Ok, let's review then.
.............
PS: yes, I am at work with nothing else to do today!
Goodness gracious me! Are you feeling better now?

You know, you should really post this on the comments section of her blog. I fear you may be preaching to the converted here... (I believe you call it preaching to the choir? )

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Old Dec 18th 2005, 1:37 am
  #15  
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Default Re: Found this: "Travels with The Department of Homeland Security and INS"

Load of bollox. We've managed to jump all the USCIS hooplahs. Yes, some of them are a pain in the butt but so what? Its all in black and white.

AR-11. Never forget to do it.

She sounds like a whingy kept middle class biatch that expects everyone to do things for her. Well lady, life sucks. YOu could've been deported and you were'nt. Say thanks and STFU whining.
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