JAJ

And "ISSUED" refers to when the birth was first registered, not the actual date the certificate was obtained.

Lots of people have replacement birth certificates, but in very few cases are births first registered more than 3 months after the birth took place.
If ABTRAN are giving the opposite impression, that is unacceptable.

Also - and it's not relevant here - if a child acquires British citizenship at birth, and is adopted out to non-British parents, then the child does NOT lose British citizenship.

The corollary, is that if British parents adopt a child overseas, the child does not automatically become British (except in more recent years, through Hague Convention compliant adoptions) but if the adoption is to British standards can normally be registered as a British citizen before the age of 18.

IrmoBrit

JAJ, thanks for the clarification! I see my new birth certificate has an original registration date of one month after my birth, so I guess I'm good to go.

JAJ

Not true - it's GBP540 for UKM registration.

Plus a consular fee (which the Embassy will charge) plus a citizenship ceremony fee.

sarahdukie

Thanks for the clarification, JAJ--ABTRAN informed me (on several occasions) that I needed a certificate that had been put in my parents' hands within 3 months of my birth. They ordered me to therefor supplement my application with hospital footprints, the hospital bill for my birth, my baptism record, etc, to provide additional proof of my parentage. I provided this information and did receive my passport.

JAJ

Most other countries have had similar laws over time. Those eligible for registration now simply have an option of whether or not to reply, but they will not drop the fee.

JAJ

I somehow doubt that the Passport Office in Britain would get away with this kind of "orders". Once again, lots of people do have to replace birth certificates over time and I have never heard of anyone in Britain being subjected to this kind of hassle.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that there are two options when faced with this kind of attitude - do what they say (even if it is with no authority), or make an application anyway and formally complain if they refuse it. The latter option is often preferable.

Incidentally - it is reasonable for them to ask for copies of your local ID (American passport etc) to ensure the details are the same.

What would have happened if they had lost all the documentation you provided?

sarahdukie

It does seem very unreasonable, but I know several others who have had their applications rejected (in the US) for this reason.

JAJ

And it may keep going until they are challenged. It is common for countries to treat visa applicants this way, unusual for any developed country to treat their own citizens like that.

All that said - it is reasonable and acceptable to ensure adequate proof of ID and citizenship before issuing a passport. The issue here is that the requirements sometimes go beyond what is reasonable and the disparity in policy between Embassies and the Passport Office. And the lack of transparency.

There is discussion of what the options are if unreasonably denied passport facilities:
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Obtain...ports_overseas

JAJ

Send it and see what happens. Did you order multiple copies? It is always useful to have more than one registry-issued copy of your birth certificate available.

Also, your birth certificate isn't proof of identity, so do send some reasonable US documentation proving that you are the same person as on that Bermuda birth certificate. You should send at least the following:

- a copy of your U.S. Consular Report of Birth Abroad document
- a copy of the ID page of your U.S. passport
- a copy of your U.S. driving licence, if you have one.
- any other official U.S. documentation that shows you are who you say you are.

It is normally acceptable for ID documentation to be copies, not originals. (much safer as there is always a risk of loss in transit).


Quite separately, you have an unusual citizenship situation. If you were born in Bermuda prior to 1983, and have a U.K. born parent (or grandparent) then in 1983 you became a British citizen by descent.

However, at the same time, you became a British overseas territories citizen (BOTC) otherwise than by descent.

In 2002, people from Bermuda became full British citizens but as far as I can see from the legislation, it doesn't make you a British citizen otherwise than by descent (as you were already British - however, if you had not been a British citizen already, you would have become one on 21 May 2002).

What this means, as far as I can see is, that if you have children born in the U.S. and they don't get citizenship from the other parent, then the process is as follows:

- Child will not be a British citizen at birth; and
- Child will automatically become a BOTC by descent; and
- Hence you can register the child as a British citizen under section 4A of the British Nationality Act 1981.
- Ironically, child would become a British citizen otherwise than by descent.

All this assumes the law doesn't change. If Bermuda becomes independent, then there will be a change in the law which might or might not affect you. However, the decline of financial services may make Bermuda independence less probable in the medium term.

One further issue to be aware of. The fact you are a BOTC does not automatically give you the right of abode in Bermuda. You would need to see what Bermuda's immigration laws say.

IrmoBrit

Yes, I definitely will send copies of as many identity items I can, like my driver's license, government work ID, US passport ID page, etc...

I've researched my particular situation quite a bit. My parents are also Bermudian, not from the UK, so I was never a British Citizen before the 2002 Act that conferred this status on all BOTCs. My understanding is that since I was a BOTC otherwise than by descent, the 2002 law made me a British Citizen otherwise than by descent. My daughter, born in the US, is both a British Citizen by descent, and a BOTC by descent. Gotta love British nationality law!

In the example you give (again, as I understand the law) a person born in Bermuda to a UK born parent would, today, also be a British Citizen otherwise than by descent. Even though the person would have been a British Citizen by descent before the 2002 law, this law would have superseded that since the person was a BOTC otherwise than by descent.

JAJ

If your parents are Bermudian, have you not also been issued with a BOTC (formerly BDTC) passport from Bermuda? If so, send details/copies of that too.

That's correct. Bear in mind that if your sole claim to British citizenship is through Bermuda and you have no ties by way of descent or residence to the United Kingdom, you may lose it if Bermuda becomes independent AND you become a citizen of Bermuda at independence (something over which you may or may not have a choice). It would depend on the precise terms of the independence legislation, but that has been the practice before and the British government has said they would expect to do the same if Bermuda elects to go independent.

How did you get your U.S. citizenship? If by naturalisation, you should be aware that even though this does not cause loss of BOTC status, it could impact your "belonger status" in a territory - again, this would depend on Bermuda laws.



It depends! Assuming parents are from the U.K. itself and not Bermuda or any other colony/territory:

1. born before 1983, would be a BC by descent and a BOTC otherwise than by descent
2. born between 1.1.1983 and 20 May 2002 : BC by descent only.
3. born on or after 21 May 2002 : BC otherwise than by descent.

I've never seen a case (on a forum) of someone in situation 2 with a non-U.K. born child of their own ... not yet anyway. Perhaps the best option would be to apply to the Home Office for discretionary registration of such a child under section 3(1) of the British Nationality Act. It would have to be on "out of policy" grounds as I don't think anyone has thought of this scenario.

IrmoBrit

I am a US citizen by birth, through my mother who lived in the US the requisite amount of time. Her father was in the US Army, and she moved back and forth between Bermuda and the US before I was born. Bermuda's belonger status is granted to all persons born in Bermuda to at least one parent holding belonger status, and can not be lost. I still fit that bill.

Although I have always been eligible to apply for a BOTC passport, I've never looked into it. I only started researching this facet of my nationality a couple of years ago. For the longest time, I assumed (having been told by my mother incorrectly) that dual citizenship was not allowed, and that my Bermudian "citizenship" was lost when I got my US birth certificate.

As far as Bermuda going independent, I'll cross that bridge if and when it comes. From everything I read, it doesn't sound like it's going to happen anytime soon, if ever. The Progressive Labour Party's posturing notwithstanding.

About the scenario of a Bermuda born person with a UK born parent, I disagree on the first item; show me what I'm missing! If the person was born before 1983, they would have been a BC by descent and and BOTC otherwise than by descent prior to 2002. But in 2002, all BOTC's were granted BC. Since this person was a BOTC otherwise than by descent, I think they would have become a BC otherwise than by descent, regardless of the fact that they were already a BC by descent.

JAJ

As far as I am aware, it is quote possible to hold both a (United Kingdom) British citizen and a Bermuda (BOTC) passport. But you'd need to ask if this is important.

The only "risk" of holding a BOTC passport is that, in an independence scenario, it might impact whether you would get Bermuda citizenship and, possibly, as a result lose your British citizenship.

As for independence itself, it is obviously a decision for the people of Bermuda, but it is difficult to see what Bermuda could achieve as an independent nation that it cannot already achieve with its full control over pretty much everything except defence and foreign affairs.

I think I stand corrected. Normally the principle of law is that a person cannot "become" a BC if they already are one, but in this case, section 3 of the 2002 Act goes as follows:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2002..._20020008_en_1

----------

3. Conferral on British overseas territories citizens

(1) Any person who, immediately before the commencement of this section, is a British overseas territories citizen shall, on the commencement of this section, become a British citizen.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a person who is a British overseas territories citizen by virtue only of a connection with the Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia.

(3) A person who is a British citizen by virtue of this section is a British citizen by descent for the purposes of the British Nationality Act 1981 if, and only if—
(a) he was a British overseas territories citizen by descent immediately before the commencement of this section, and
(b) if at that time he was a British citizen as well as a British overseas territories citizen, he was a British citizen by descent."

------------

Subsection 3(b) clearly appears to contemplate that a person who is already BC by descent should not be excluded from the scope of section 3 and although I'm not a lawyer, I suspect the courts would take this view if the Home Office tried to interpret things differently.

I think the reason for this clause is Gibraltar - prior to 2002, a large number of Gibraltarians acquired British citizenship under section 5 of the 1981 Act which confers British citizenship by descent. Effectively, and unusually, there was a "switch" of people from BC by descent to otherwise than by descent on 21 May 2002.

It would be important, if you had a child born in the U.S., to document that child's British citizenship carefully (with consular birth registration + British citizen passport) to guard against any change in interpretation.
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Britis...h_Registration

As a fall back, section 4 of the 2002 Act adds a new section 4A to the 1981 Act, allowing any BOTC who is not also a BC to acquire that citizenship (except those from the Sovereign Base Areas or who has renounced BC). Registration is discretionary but is normally granted - except for reasons such as good character or the occasional case where someone was naturalised BOTC in error. The main users of section 4A are those who acquired BOTC by registration or naturalisation on or after 21 May 2002.

IrmoBrit

I thought I remembered something like that from the 2002 Act, thanks for confirming it.

Yeah, once I learned about the BOTC passport versus the BC passport, I really didn't see a point in getting the former, as the latter shows that you are an EU citizen, with all the rights that that affords you.

I've thought about getting a BC passport for my daughter, too, and I probably will in the future. Is the Consular Birth Certificate really that important, when she can get a passport without one? If I recall, it costs as much as, or maybe a little more, than a passport. And the passport would prove citizenship just as well.

JAJ

No such thing as an "EU citizen" - the EU is not a country. While the United Kingdom subscribes to the EU Treaties then it does confer certain reciprocal rights in other EU states, but with mass unemployment a certainty and a different government in 2010 a near-certainty, this could change rather quickly.

Ironically, a Bermuda passport allows one to enter the U.S. with fewer formalities (same rules, though), compared to the visa waiver scheme. Similar to a Canadian passport. Doesn't matter if you're also U.S. citizens, of course.
http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/wi...hout_1260.html

I don't know if it's mandatory to have one to live in Bermuda, if you have a British citizen passport - depends if belonger status can be shown another way.




Passports can be lost!

This issue is discussed at:
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Britis...h_Registration

It is always better to have more documentation proving citizenship rather than less and it's amusing to see how strongly some people on this forum argue for the opposite point of view.

Does your daughter have Bermuda belonger status?