Originally posted by Taffyles
A relative of mine was murdered by the IRA, but I still value my freedom and privacy and that of my children and grandchild (who is a born American). Emigrating may mean leaving "your" country behind but since when did it include leaving your brain and becoming a mindless sheep? If we are to integrate into American society we should all be concerned by events around us and what is happening in the country, or are we supposed to opt out of society? Living here isn't a holiday- we are LIVING here. As permanent residents who have almost all the rights of US citizens- of course we have a right to criticize- especially on this forum for British ex-pats, because we can't do that in the workplace (as I said before). You speak like we're all asylum seekers coming in from a war torn or politically oppressed country who should be eternally grateful to the US for taking us in, or something.
Jeeze I had ex-pat friends when living in UK and I never once told them to go home when they criticised the country, I'm glad to say. In fact their opinions usually offered a unique perspective. They were working, raising families, paying taxes and contributing to the system, they had every right to voice their opinion.

BTW my blood pressure is never raised - its always bang on normal- must be all the tea I drink. And I'm very popular with my co-workers- they love my accent You were so busy leaping to conclusions you missed da point!

Originally posted by Duncs
I looked at the DHS info and it seems to apply to visitors so i would hazard a guess that perm residents would not be treated the same. Wont know until someone goes through after jan 1st.

Still doesnt change the point about expressing your opinion in the USA. My wife will tell you you could never shut me up anyhow.

Taffyles. sorry to hear about your relative.

regards,

Duncan

Originally posted by JerseyBoy
Wow - you really are hostile to Bush aren't you? Just out of interest, do you favor the Democrats (if you don't mind me asking) or do you see them as all as bad as each other?

Originally posted by effi
......, you have all been fingerprinted for your applications to be here, did you whine about it when you were down the INS office applying, or refuse to do it, I think not.

Originally posted by effi
Why am I so annoying to you, is it because I don't agree with what you say? Are you the only one who is right? Remind me when you eventually find employment not to hire you as a lawyer. You have a major chip on your shoulder. Get over the fact that things went tits up for you in Ireland. All a lot of people can see is "gotta get over there", they don't do their homework, just turn up and expect everyone to fall all over themselves because of the UK qualifications they purport to have. Well as you found out, the qualifications you had in UK mean shit here, and why should they? You do have TV in Ireland I presume, you must have had some idea of the policies of this country, you obviously don't like them, so why did you come? Also, no, I am not Sparkster, I check my spelling.

Originally posted by Duncs
what do you mean purport? i have an LL.B(hons) an LL.M a Certficate of Professional Legal Studies and i am a Barrister. But for the umpteenth ****ing time i was more than aware that my qualifications were no good here that is why i had already taken the Law school admissions test(LSAT) and made arrangements to apply to law colleges before i even arrived. My degrees will hopefully get me into Law School but i know after that i need to start again and i am.

I dont have a chip on my shoulder but i do argue vociferously for those things in which i believe, freedom being one of them.

I dont like the polices in the USA right now on lots of issues and i intend to exercise my democratic right to argue against them. As long as i agitate peacefully for change what wrong with that? i am not about to stay away from the USA because i cant agree with all its govt policies. i came here becuase my wife is American by the way and she doesnt like the policies either but where would you suggest she 'goes home' to?

By the way if you wouldnt hire a lawyer who was agressive in defending their point of view, then you must have had some pretty shit lawyers in your time.

regards,

Duncan

Originally posted by effi
No sweetie, I did not miss the point, and I never jump to conclusions if I can help it. As you stated, you have almost all of the rights of an American citizen, but you are not one are you? So, I say again, what gives you the right to critisize the way things are done in this country? Please don't get me wrong, I hate Bush and everything he stands for. A president who proclaims that he was put into office by God has got to have a few screws loose. As for Ashcroft, well, he is a religous zealot. The fact remains though that he was voted in, therefore what he does in regard to policies in this country is on the behalf of the people who voted for him, he is their voice. By voting for him the US public gave him the right to do things on their behalf. I also still believe that if I had voted for him (by the way I was not eligible at the time) it still would have made no difference. Look at the thousands of people who did vote, only to have their votes thrown out. All the people on this board want to be here in the US, including me. Why is it though that once people move to this country and discover it is not the land of opportunity they thought it was going to be, that they all start whining about what a raw deal they are getting. To answer the original posting, yes I agree with being fingerprinted if I am not a US subject. What is so bad about it, you have all been fingerprinted for your applications to be here, did you whine about it when you were down the INS office applying, or refuse to do it, I think not. (wow, this must be one of the most stupid retorts I have ever heard.) Respect my opinion, just as I respect yours and stop acting like a 5 year old who has had his toys taken away from him.

Originally posted by effi
.... I also do not agree with the policies in this country, I think they suck big time. The only piece of advice I would give you is be careful in expressing your opinions, especially to Americans. A lot of them feel the same as us, but the majority of them are fiercely patriotic. If you are seen to oppose what the moron and his cronies are doing you are labeled as being unpatriotic, and whether you like it or not, big brother is watching you.

Originally posted by croesx
After having read this thread it became clear to me that you are a very old passive-aggressive patronizing person who is not quite clear on her own position whether a non-U.S. Citizen is allowed to criticize or not. You have stated that you are a green card holder and in your remarks quoted above you clearly criticize the president and ashcroft (both of whom I despise).

Ok so I am old, not very old, unless you consider 51 to be very old, so what does that have to do with anything, does it stop me from having an opinion? I am neither passive-aggressive nor patronizing, and sorry don't quite get where you are going with the last sentence, can you explain it a bit better.

"I am not a US citizen, just a greencard holder like many on this board. I don't like the way things are going in this country any more than you seem to, but it is not my country."

In the above statement there clearly is a criticism on how the USA is governed given the context of this thread.

Yeah, so what is your point?

"If you don't like the policies in this country then the phrase "go home" seems perfectly reasonable to me." (whatever......)

"Still though it does not give non US citizens the right to get in their faces and point out what is wrong with their country." (??????????)

"After the last debaucle they called an election, do you really think my vote would have made a difference. The retard was going to get in no matter what. Still though it does not give non US citizens the right to get in their faces and point out what is wrong with their country." (You criticized the electoral process of 2000 in those statements you made: that means you criticized how things are done here at some point in your green card tenure.... Do you still think non-citizens should not voice their opionion?)

I have had my green card for almost 6 years, that means it was a bit before 2000 that I received it, am I right? As for non citizens not voicing their opinion, I think that in these times you need to be careful who you go giving your opinion to.

"The fact though that my opinion differs from yours does not make me a bad person, so personal attacks are really not called for."(You've made yourself guilty of attacking personally yourself throughout this thread, so stop acting like a 80-year old who hasn't gotten some in a long time!!!!!!!!!!!)

Grow up.

"What is so bad about it, you have all been fingerprinted for your applications to be here, did you whine about it when you were down the INS office applying, or refuse to do it, I think not. " (stupid retort)

Originally posted by effi
Why pray is this remark stupid? Can you expand on that remark?

Originally posted by Bookworm
So, it looks to me as if you have some issues as well. The very fact that you say yourself that some opinions are better not expressed these days and critique being labeled as "unpatriotic" and "big brother is watching you" - that doesn't bother you? One of the biggest democratic countries in the world and people should be careful what they say out loud? I think that is very much troublesome. I have to agree with Duncan, although I wouldn't use the same language, it is our duty as people who believe in democracy to raise our voice and point that out. Because, there is an underlaying danger in being quite. Once a government takes steps to infringe on rights of individuals than where is it going to stop?
And excuse me, but "go home" is an argument I do not buy. Because it doesn't address the problem and is usually used by people you don't like either (as I understood from parts of your comments).

Originally posted by croesx
After having read this thread it became clear to me that you are a very old passive-aggressive patronizing person who is not quite clear on her own position whether a non-U.S. Citizen is allowed to criticize or not. You have stated that you are a green card holder and in your remarks quoted above you clearly criticize the president and ashcroft (both of whom I despise).

"I am not a US citizen, just a greencard holder like many on this board. I don't like the way things are going in this country any more than you seem to, but it is not my country."

In the above statement there clearly is a criticism on how the USA is governed given the context of this thread.

"If you don't like the policies in this country then the phrase "go home" seems perfectly reasonable to me." (whatever......)

"Still though it does not give non US citizens the right to get in their faces and point out what is wrong with their country." (??????????)

"After the last debaucle they called an election, do you really think my vote would have made a difference. The retard was going to get in no matter what. Still though it does not give non US citizens the right to get in their faces and point out what is wrong with their country." (You criticized the electoral process of 2000 in those statements you made: that means you criticized how things are done here at some point in your green card tenure.... Do you still think non-citizens should not voice their opionion?)

"The fact though that my opinion differs from yours does not make me a bad person, so personal attacks are really not called for."(You've made yourself guilty of attacking personally yourself throughout this thread, so stop acting like a 80-year old who hasn't gotten some in a long time!!!!!!!!!!!)

"What is so bad about it, you have all been fingerprinted for your applications to be here, did you whine about it when you were down the INS office applying, or refuse to do it, I think not. " (stupid retort)

Originally posted by croesx
the last remark, or one of, or all of the ones you made?

Originally posted by effi
Never mind, I don't want to confuse you any more than you appear to be.

Originally posted by croesx
Thank you, Sweetie, how thoughtful, you seem to excell in being a C.NT!!!!!!