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Finding Employment Issues!

Finding Employment Issues!

Old Mar 22nd 2012, 3:13 am
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

We have become a society of credentials rather than experience or knowledge, and honestly, in the USA the credential of a college degree is usually required for a job that doesn't necessarily require anything learned during that degree.

These credentials tests are simply to reduce the workload of the people doing the hiring. If you get 1000 resumes for a job, you have to find something that will cut the pile down before you start actually reviewing what is on the resumes.

To get around this, you have to get out of the 'weed out' system--that's the lower level HR and hiring folks who are literally dealing with 100s of resumes a day. You need to make connections to the people who have real power, i.e. the power to say 'yes'. The folks you are dealing with now have fake power, i.e. the power to say 'no'.

How you do that is going to take some leg work. Networking, calling, socializing, meeting folks. Attend some events for people in that field, find someone who can recognize your skills and pull you through the hassles rather than you keep pushing up against the brick wall.

Good luck
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 3:20 am
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

Originally Posted by Boiler
Community College is a LOT cheaper.
Nope.

http://m.theatlantic.com/business/ar...ensive/254589/
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 12:35 pm
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

Originally Posted by penguinsix
We have become a society of credentials rather than experience or knowledge, and honestly, in the USA the credential of a college degree is usually required for a job that doesn't necessarily require anything learned during that degree.
This part I totally agree with.

Originally Posted by penguinsix
These credentials tests are simply to reduce the workload of the people doing the hiring. If you get 1000 resumes for a job, you have to find something that will cut the pile down before you start actually reviewing what is on the resumes.
This part I don't. Many companies apply grades to jobs, those grades affecting the pay scale etc. Many formal job grading processes include a lot of emphasis on education. Therefore, to be able to pay enough to hire a reasonable person the job has to carry a certain grade, and the definition of the role in order to get it graded appropriately needs to carry a certain level of education. It is something of a vicious circle.

Granted, HR people then "apply" those critieria in a very black/white fashion, which does not help, but I would put a lot of the blame on job grading systems that emphasise education over experience.
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 12:56 pm
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

Originally Posted by celticgrid
This part I totally agree with.



This part I don't. Many companies apply grades to jobs, those grades affecting the pay scale etc. Many formal job grading processes include a lot of emphasis on education. Therefore, to be able to pay enough to hire a reasonable person the job has to carry a certain grade, and the definition of the role in order to get it graded appropriately needs to carry a certain level of education. It is something of a vicious circle.

Granted, HR people then "apply" those critieria in a very black/white fashion, which does not help, but I would put a lot of the blame on job grading systems that emphasise education over experience.
But that's the thing a decent High School/Secondary education is all that is needed education wise to do my job, its more about how good you are on the phone/in person with people, confidence in yourself & the product, product knowledge & the such, nothing to do with a piece of paper. The amount of people I have seen come & go in the sales profession is huge, it has nothing to do with college degrees/diplomas & everything to do with common sense. No college in the world can teach you the skills you need to be a good salesperson.

I can tell you this if I am expected to go to college for 2-4 years it certainly won't be to stay in the bullshit world that is sales. I will just push my retraining up early & completly switch careers!
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 3:21 pm
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

Originally Posted by ian-mstm
While I wouldn't normally suggest this, I'll point out that it's not illegal to enhance your resume sufficiently to get an interview. At the interview, you'll be talking to someone who can actually decide that a degree isn't required... something the front-line HR personnel can't do. Once someone is ready to offer you a job... that's when you come clean. Remember, it's always easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission.

At this point, I'm putting on my flame-retardant suit... because I expect a lot of flack from my comment.

Ian
That is a recipe for disaster: think how you'd react if an applicant told you that part of their resume was a lie. Why would you then believe any of it? I would strongly advise against lying on your resume: if the lie is discovered you risk losing your job. That's not to say you can't enhance and embellish: there is world of difference between lying about a degree and bigging-up your experience (virtually impossible to verify as long as it appears reasonable).
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

Originally Posted by markwm
That is a recipe for disaster: think how you'd react if an applicant told you that part of their resume was a lie. Why would you then believe any of it? I would strongly advise against lying on your resume: if the lie is discovered you risk losing your job. That's not to say you can't enhance and embellish: there is world of difference between lying about a degree and bigging-up your experience (virtually impossible to verify as long as it appears reasonable).
Yep spot on with that Mark, but think I am going to join a headhunting firm & see what that brings!
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 4:32 pm
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

Originally Posted by janicedean164
Yep spot on with that Mark, but think I am going to join a headhunting firm & see what that brings!
Good luck!
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 4:33 pm
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

Originally Posted by markwm
Good luck!
Thank you!
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 4:41 pm
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

I dont have a degree either and I really struggled to get work (even in IT) with lots of experience, including Oxford University.

I got lucky by searching for jobs on Monster then going direct to the company's website and applying via their normal method, so you dont get a homogenised version of your resume. I dropped my salary requirement by about $15,000 as well just to get into work, as we all know once you are employed, you are instantly more employable.

For the covering letter I spent a good couple of hours writing up to fit exactly what they were asking for and was advised to "brag" more than I would in the UK about how amazing I am and how they really cant do without me!

It may just be pure luck but I know deep down I put more effort into this job application than the others.
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 4:48 pm
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

Originally Posted by markwm
That is a recipe for disaster: think how you'd react if an applicant told you that part of their resume was a lie. Why would you then believe any of it?
Can you point out where I advised him to lie?


That's not to say you can't enhance and embellish...
Isn't "enhance" the exact word I used? Unlike most people, I actually understand that words have meaning!

Ian
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 4:48 pm
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

Originally Posted by ned1983
I dont have a degree either and I really struggled to get work (even in IT) with lots of experience, including Oxford University.

I got lucky by searching for jobs on Monster then going direct to the company's website and applying via their normal method, so you dont get a homogenised version of your resume. I dropped my salary requirement by about $15,000 as well just to get into work, as we all know once you are employed, you are instantly more employable.

For the covering letter I spent a good couple of hours writing up to fit exactly what they were asking for and was advised to "brag" more than I would in the UK about how amazing I am and how they really cant do without me!

It may just be pure luck but I know deep down I put more effort into this job application than the others.
It is good practice to tailor your resume to fit each job. Again, as above, don't lie, but make yourself more attractive to the role by looking at what they want and highlighting attributes that would make you right for the role. If you do have sufficient experience in IT that can, very often, outweigh a degree which may not even be IT based.
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 5:00 pm
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

Originally Posted by ian-mstm
Can you point out where I advised him to lie?
"Once someone is ready to offer you a job... that's when you come clean." seems to imply that you've told a porky. Even if that's not exactly what you meant there is no way you should ever admit that your resume isn't 100% kosher.

Originally Posted by ian-mstm
Isn't "enhance" the exact word I used? Unlike most people, I actually understand that words have meaning!
Context is everything: whilst you did use that word it was tied to your statement above which, again, implies that a lie requires retraction.
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 5:33 pm
  #28  
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

When I look at LinkedIn profiles of nearly all my colleagues from the Hedge Fund firm I worked for (I was there for 10 years) they have all put that they were Managers or Directors or directly responsible for blah blah.. what a joke - we had a very flat structure and had no job titles and some of them were let go because they were incompetent!
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 6:08 pm
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

Originally Posted by markwm
That is a recipe for disaster: think how you'd react if an applicant told you that part of their resume was a lie. Why would you then believe any of it? I would strongly advise against lying on your resume: if the lie is discovered you risk losing your job. That's not to say you can't enhance and embellish: there is world of difference between lying about a degree and bigging-up your experience (virtually impossible to verify as long as it appears reasonable).
Stating you have a degree when you don't is definitely a recipe for disaster imo and if found out subsequent to employment starting can well lead to dismissal (I've seen this happen a couple of times). Tailoring a resumé to a particular job, though, is commonsense, as is maximising one's past whilst staying within the bounds of truth.
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Old Mar 22nd 2012, 6:10 pm
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Default Re: Finding Employment Issues!

Originally Posted by penguinsix
We have become a society of credentials rather than experience or knowledge, and honestly, in the USA the credential of a college degree is usually required for a job that doesn't necessarily require anything learned during that degree.
And an increasing number of jobs are requiring a post-grad degree. Add in the cost of obtaining said degree and we are building a situation where education requirements are becoming a huge obstacle to social mobility.
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