Finding Employment Issues!
#16
Re: Finding Employment Issues!
We have become a society of credentials rather than experience or knowledge, and honestly, in the USA the credential of a college degree is usually required for a job that doesn't necessarily require anything learned during that degree.
These credentials tests are simply to reduce the workload of the people doing the hiring. If you get 1000 resumes for a job, you have to find something that will cut the pile down before you start actually reviewing what is on the resumes.
To get around this, you have to get out of the 'weed out' system--that's the lower level HR and hiring folks who are literally dealing with 100s of resumes a day. You need to make connections to the people who have real power, i.e. the power to say 'yes'. The folks you are dealing with now have fake power, i.e. the power to say 'no'.
How you do that is going to take some leg work. Networking, calling, socializing, meeting folks. Attend some events for people in that field, find someone who can recognize your skills and pull you through the hassles rather than you keep pushing up against the brick wall.
Good luck
These credentials tests are simply to reduce the workload of the people doing the hiring. If you get 1000 resumes for a job, you have to find something that will cut the pile down before you start actually reviewing what is on the resumes.
To get around this, you have to get out of the 'weed out' system--that's the lower level HR and hiring folks who are literally dealing with 100s of resumes a day. You need to make connections to the people who have real power, i.e. the power to say 'yes'. The folks you are dealing with now have fake power, i.e. the power to say 'no'.
How you do that is going to take some leg work. Networking, calling, socializing, meeting folks. Attend some events for people in that field, find someone who can recognize your skills and pull you through the hassles rather than you keep pushing up against the brick wall.
Good luck
#17
Banned
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Purgatory (PU, USA)
Posts: 860
#18
Re: Finding Employment Issues!
Granted, HR people then "apply" those critieria in a very black/white fashion, which does not help, but I would put a lot of the blame on job grading systems that emphasise education over experience.
#19
Re: Finding Employment Issues!
This part I totally agree with.
This part I don't. Many companies apply grades to jobs, those grades affecting the pay scale etc. Many formal job grading processes include a lot of emphasis on education. Therefore, to be able to pay enough to hire a reasonable person the job has to carry a certain grade, and the definition of the role in order to get it graded appropriately needs to carry a certain level of education. It is something of a vicious circle.
Granted, HR people then "apply" those critieria in a very black/white fashion, which does not help, but I would put a lot of the blame on job grading systems that emphasise education over experience.
This part I don't. Many companies apply grades to jobs, those grades affecting the pay scale etc. Many formal job grading processes include a lot of emphasis on education. Therefore, to be able to pay enough to hire a reasonable person the job has to carry a certain grade, and the definition of the role in order to get it graded appropriately needs to carry a certain level of education. It is something of a vicious circle.
Granted, HR people then "apply" those critieria in a very black/white fashion, which does not help, but I would put a lot of the blame on job grading systems that emphasise education over experience.
I can tell you this if I am expected to go to college for 2-4 years it certainly won't be to stay in the bullshit world that is sales. I will just push my retraining up early & completly switch careers!
#20
Re: Finding Employment Issues!
While I wouldn't normally suggest this, I'll point out that it's not illegal to enhance your resume sufficiently to get an interview. At the interview, you'll be talking to someone who can actually decide that a degree isn't required... something the front-line HR personnel can't do. Once someone is ready to offer you a job... that's when you come clean. Remember, it's always easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission.
At this point, I'm putting on my flame-retardant suit... because I expect a lot of flack from my comment.
Ian
At this point, I'm putting on my flame-retardant suit... because I expect a lot of flack from my comment.
Ian
#21
Re: Finding Employment Issues!
That is a recipe for disaster: think how you'd react if an applicant told you that part of their resume was a lie. Why would you then believe any of it? I would strongly advise against lying on your resume: if the lie is discovered you risk losing your job. That's not to say you can't enhance and embellish: there is world of difference between lying about a degree and bigging-up your experience (virtually impossible to verify as long as it appears reasonable).
#24
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 58
Re: Finding Employment Issues!
I dont have a degree either and I really struggled to get work (even in IT) with lots of experience, including Oxford University.
I got lucky by searching for jobs on Monster then going direct to the company's website and applying via their normal method, so you dont get a homogenised version of your resume. I dropped my salary requirement by about $15,000 as well just to get into work, as we all know once you are employed, you are instantly more employable.
For the covering letter I spent a good couple of hours writing up to fit exactly what they were asking for and was advised to "brag" more than I would in the UK about how amazing I am and how they really cant do without me!
It may just be pure luck but I know deep down I put more effort into this job application than the others.
I got lucky by searching for jobs on Monster then going direct to the company's website and applying via their normal method, so you dont get a homogenised version of your resume. I dropped my salary requirement by about $15,000 as well just to get into work, as we all know once you are employed, you are instantly more employable.
For the covering letter I spent a good couple of hours writing up to fit exactly what they were asking for and was advised to "brag" more than I would in the UK about how amazing I am and how they really cant do without me!
It may just be pure luck but I know deep down I put more effort into this job application than the others.
#25
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
Re: Finding Employment Issues!
That's not to say you can't enhance and embellish...
Ian
#26
Re: Finding Employment Issues!
I dont have a degree either and I really struggled to get work (even in IT) with lots of experience, including Oxford University.
I got lucky by searching for jobs on Monster then going direct to the company's website and applying via their normal method, so you dont get a homogenised version of your resume. I dropped my salary requirement by about $15,000 as well just to get into work, as we all know once you are employed, you are instantly more employable.
For the covering letter I spent a good couple of hours writing up to fit exactly what they were asking for and was advised to "brag" more than I would in the UK about how amazing I am and how they really cant do without me!
It may just be pure luck but I know deep down I put more effort into this job application than the others.
I got lucky by searching for jobs on Monster then going direct to the company's website and applying via their normal method, so you dont get a homogenised version of your resume. I dropped my salary requirement by about $15,000 as well just to get into work, as we all know once you are employed, you are instantly more employable.
For the covering letter I spent a good couple of hours writing up to fit exactly what they were asking for and was advised to "brag" more than I would in the UK about how amazing I am and how they really cant do without me!
It may just be pure luck but I know deep down I put more effort into this job application than the others.
#27
Re: Finding Employment Issues!
"Once someone is ready to offer you a job... that's when you come clean." seems to imply that you've told a porky. Even if that's not exactly what you meant there is no way you should ever admit that your resume isn't 100% kosher.
Context is everything: whilst you did use that word it was tied to your statement above which, again, implies that a lie requires retraction.
Context is everything: whilst you did use that word it was tied to your statement above which, again, implies that a lie requires retraction.
#28
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Charlotte,NC
Posts: 1,717
Re: Finding Employment Issues!
When I look at LinkedIn profiles of nearly all my colleagues from the Hedge Fund firm I worked for (I was there for 10 years) they have all put that they were Managers or Directors or directly responsible for blah blah.. what a joke - we had a very flat structure and had no job titles and some of them were let go because they were incompetent!
#29
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,852
Re: Finding Employment Issues!
That is a recipe for disaster: think how you'd react if an applicant told you that part of their resume was a lie. Why would you then believe any of it? I would strongly advise against lying on your resume: if the lie is discovered you risk losing your job. That's not to say you can't enhance and embellish: there is world of difference between lying about a degree and bigging-up your experience (virtually impossible to verify as long as it appears reasonable).
#30
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,852
Re: Finding Employment Issues!
And an increasing number of jobs are requiring a post-grad degree. Add in the cost of obtaining said degree and we are building a situation where education requirements are becoming a huge obstacle to social mobility.