FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
In the process of filling out my FBAR/8938's for 2013.
In terms of reporting the "maximum amount in any account", are there rules/suggestions regarding what to report when sums have regularly been transferred between the accounts to gain maximum advantage from interest? E.g. Take any date, say April 2nd. Account 1 may have £100 in it whilst Account 2 has £100,000. Account 1 suddenly offers a keener interest rate, so I move £99,900 from Account 2 to take advantage. Therefore, both accounts' maximum value during the year is £100,000. Do I have to report that? Or, as both accounts are under the same 'umbrella account' should I then only report that umbrella account, keeping paperwork to prove what's gone on? It seems a bit grey area to me and could make my foreign assets seem FAR more excessive than they actually are. |
Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
Originally Posted by Skint
(Post 11201200)
In the process of filling out my FBAR/8938's for 2013.
In terms of reporting the "maximum amount in any account", are there rules/suggestions regarding what to report when sums have regularly been transferred between the accounts to gain maximum advantage from interest? E.g. Take any date, say April 2nd. Account 1 may have £100 in it whilst Account 2 has £100,000. Account 1 suddenly offers a keener interest rate, so I move £99,900 from Account 2 to take advantage. Therefore, both accounts' maximum value during the year is £100,000. Do I have to report that? That's the rules, no-one is really sure why. The IRS aren't suddenly going to think you have more income than you actually had, so don't worry. |
Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
Originally Posted by Skint
(Post 11201200)
In the process of filling out my FBAR/8938's for 2013.
In terms of reporting the "maximum amount in any account", are there rules/suggestions regarding what to report when sums have regularly been transferred between the accounts to gain maximum advantage from interest? E.g. Take any date, say April 2nd. Account 1 may have £100 in it whilst Account 2 has £100,000. Account 1 suddenly offers a keener interest rate, so I move £99,900 from Account 2 to take advantage. Therefore, both accounts' maximum value during the year is £100,000. Do I have to report that? Or, as both accounts are under the same 'umbrella account' should I then only report that umbrella account, keeping paperwork to prove what's gone on? It seems a bit grey area to me and could make my foreign assets seem FAR more excessive than they actually are. |
Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
Originally Posted by Skint
(Post 11201200)
In the process of filling out my FBAR/8938's for 2013.
In terms of reporting the "maximum amount in any account", are there rules/suggestions regarding what to report when sums have regularly been transferred between the accounts to gain maximum advantage from interest? E.g. Take any date, say April 2nd. Account 1 may have £100 in it whilst Account 2 has £100,000. Account 1 suddenly offers a keener interest rate, so I move £99,900 from Account 2 to take advantage. Therefore, both accounts' maximum value during the year is £100,000. Do I have to report that? Or, as both accounts are under the same 'umbrella account' should I then only report that umbrella account, keeping paperwork to prove what's gone on? It seems a bit grey area to me and could make my foreign assets seem FAR more excessive than they actually are. |
Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
I can't help thinking that a simple additional box asking the maximum total of all combined accounts would greatly clarify the information the IRS gets, because under the current system they really have no idea at all about the true level of a persons overseas assets. I suppose it depends what they are actually trying to do with the info.....
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Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad
(Post 11201350)
I can't help thinking that a simple additional box asking the maximum total of all combined accounts would greatly clarify the information the IRS gets, because under the current system they really have no idea at all about the true level of a persons overseas assets. I suppose it depends what they are actually trying to do with the info.....
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Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
Having just completed both for 2013, it does seem crazy that they can't combine the reporting in some way. In my case, I'm reporting almost exactly the same information, just the fields are in a slightly different order, and the 8938 has the added feature that you report interest received.
And the all new, "improved" (NOT) FBAR still has that question about whether you have more than 25 accounts, if you do you don't have to give any details! |
Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
Originally Posted by robin1234
(Post 11201491)
And the all new, "improved" (NOT) FBAR still has that question about whether you have more than 25 accounts, if you do you don't have to give any details!
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Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
Also, a lot of people forget to include their TfL Oyster Card in their FBAR filing
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Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
Yeah right:rofl:
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Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
Originally Posted by robin1234
(Post 11201812)
Also, a lot of people forget to include their TfL Oyster Card in their FBAR filing
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Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
Originally Posted by JAJ
(Post 11201862)
This idea keeps appearing on forums, and it leads to scaremongering. There is no evidence that personal use transport cards are financial accounts. And no evidence that the IRS/Treasury have ever asked the question.
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Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
I have a multiple currency account that allows me to move money between pounds or euros or yen. All of these subaccounts are tied to one single account number. I asked them if I had to report these sub accounts separately or as just one account that was tied to my account number. They wrote back just report the one account number with the total value in all the subaccounts.
Not sure if that is relevant to the original question but thought is mention it. |
Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
Whatever next? Declaring the remaining stored value on the £20 Pay as You Go SIM card I use when I go back....:unsure:
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Re: FBAR/8938 - the uncertain baby elephant in the room
Originally Posted by Skint
(Post 11201200)
In the process of filling out my FBAR/8938's for 2013.
In terms of reporting the "maximum amount in any account", are there rules/suggestions regarding what to report when sums have regularly been transferred between the accounts to gain maximum advantage from interest? E.g. Take any date, say April 2nd. Account 1 may have £100 in it whilst Account 2 has £100,000. Account 1 suddenly offers a keener interest rate, so I move £99,900 from Account 2 to take advantage. Therefore, both accounts' maximum value during the year is £100,000. Do I have to report that? Or, as both accounts are under the same 'umbrella account' should I then only report that umbrella account, keeping paperwork to prove what's gone on? It seems a bit grey area to me and could make my foreign assets seem FAR more excessive than they actually are. Good question. Although it's unclear what audit procedures the IRS use on form 8938, it's likely that they are much more interested in those who aren't filing the form, rather than those who are. The likely worst that could happen (and this is unlikely) is that you receive a "please explain" letter and you would respond by sending an explanation. As someone else has said, if there aren't specific details in the form 8938 instructions it's a grey zone and you may be able to interpret it flexibly. If you have a single umbrella account with one account number and balance pooling for interest purposes, you could take a view that it's a single account. On the other hand, two separate accounts at the same bank should be reported separately. It's unlikely that the IRS will invest significant time and effort trying to prove you wrong. |
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