FBAR
 

Quick question

Moved to US on 31st March 2016 on an L2. I had sold my house in January so for a short time had that cash in my UK account. I also had an ISA over £10k but sold all assets before I moved over. So does FBAR need doing if all assets were transferred to my US account before I moved? The wording I see says AT ANY TIME DURING THE YEAR so I'm thinking I'm going to need to do it.
Thanks

Re: FBAR
 

1 second in your account = you must file.

Remember once FBAR is triggered for one (or through a combination of accounts) you must disclose ALL accounts no matter how much is in them.

Re: FBAR
 

Including pension pots?

Re: FBAR
 

Yes. As I have posted elsewhere even for an account holding $22 would you believe?:banghead:

Re: FBAR
 

Oh joy!

Re: FBAR
 

I had a savings account in 2016 that had a total of £0 throughout the year. Still needs to be declared. :(

Re: FBAR
 

do copies of statements need to be included ?

Re: FBAR
 

Just declare. It's not that onerous.

Re: FBAR
 

No. You do it here on-line:

BSA E-Filing System - Welcome to the BSA E-Filing System

Re: FBAR
 

If he's filing dual status, surely he only counts as a US person when he is a US taxpayer, and not before he moves to the US?

Re: FBAR
 

That's exactly my point. Since I entered the US I have only had pennies in my UK accounts.

Re: FBAR
 

It appears the PDF form is the same as last year. So you can just update the pdf from last year and resubmit. I had issues in the past, but it eventually went. Has anyone used the new online form?

The biggest issue I have with FBAR is that with an active bank account, it is sometimes difficult to establish the highest balance throughout the year, with income coming in one day and bills going out the next or same day.

I am not sure how accurate that balance has to be. I use moneydashboard.

With a defined benefit pension, would it be fair to say I do have a financial interest but no signature authority?
I certainly will benefit financially from the account one day, I hope.

Re: FBAR
 

Why is it difficult to establish the highest balance of a bank account? Why is a defined benefit pension reported on an FBAR?

Re: FBAR
 

So if I have £100 going in and £20 coming,then few days later £30 goes out, few days later £200 goes in.

I'm sure your checking account goes up and down a lot.

The question on FBAR asks "Do you have a financial interest in the account?" Any account where you benefit financially from, I would have thought falls into this category.

I know it has been generally accepted DB pensions do not need to be reported.

Re: FBAR
 

So you just glance through the first statement and see the highest balance, make a note of it then change it if there is a higher balance on a subsequent statement. Do that as the year goes by and you have your answer.

The definition of financial interest includes: the United States person is the owner of record or holder of legal title. That is not you if you have a DB pension.

Re: FBAR
 

Not what FinCEN told me.
I transferred 10k from a saving account to checking which was immediately wired out for a bill payment, the amount shown for the FBAR was including this 10k on both accounts but the actual balance was 10k less if that makes sense. Madness! FBAR wants the highest amounts shown (not balance) even if only for a nanosecond

Re: FBAR
 

Yes, that is what I was saying and meant.(ie the highest amount in your account at any point)

Re: FBAR
 

Thanks, I was going by the US legal definition.

"Financial interest" means an interest that could result in directly or indirectly receiving a pecuniary gain or sustaining a pecuniary loss as a result of ownership or interest in a business entity, or as a result of salary, gratuity, or other compensation or remuneration from any person.

I was looking at DB similar to a US deferred salary scheme

Re: FBAR
 

Mine is a quote from the FBAR instructions, can't get much more US than that!

Re: FBAR
 

looking at the instructions, you can use periodic balances to work out the maximum balance.

"The maximum value of an account is a reasonable approximation of the greatest value of currency or nonmonetary
assets in the account during the calendar year. Periodic account statements may be relied upon to determine the
maximum value of the account, provided that the statements fairly reflect the maximum account value during the
calendar year"

Re: FBAR
 

I live in a community property State, should I have filed a form 114a ? the accounts are all in my name.

IRA Owners and Beneficiaries. An owner or beneficiary of an IRA is not required to report a foreign
financial account held in the IRA.
Participants in and Beneficiaries of Tax-Qualified Retirement Plans. A participant in or beneficiary of a
retirement plan described in Internal Revenue Code § 401(a), 403(a), or 403(b) is not required to report a
foreign financial account held by or on behalf of the retirement plan.

I don't understand why 403(b)s are exempt but not 401(k)s.
.
Do UK pension accounts fall under either of these two option yet? I assume they are more like 401(k)s than 403(b)s

Re: FBAR
 

No you were saying the highest balance

Re: FBAR
 

Whatever.. I comment on the basis of wanting to help not argue :lol:


What is an 'Account Balance'
An account balance is the amount of money in a financial repository, such as a checking account, at any given moment.

Re: FBAR
 

The highest balance per individual account. Not the combined balance if you have multiple bank accounts as an example. So balance and amount are the same thing.

Re: FBAR
 

401ks are themselves. 403bs are themselves. No foreign retirement investment "counts" as either, if for no other reason that the 401k etc. is a US-based wrapper that might hold foreign account funds, whereas the UK-based pension accounts are based in the UK.

Re: FBAR
 

FWIW here is what I have been doing for the last 30 years for FBAR

1. I don't report DB pensions
2. I make a note of the highest balance of each account from the monthly or quarterly statements. (If a balance has gone higher during the day then I don't know about it, just the daily line item on the statement is all I record)
3. If the sum of all the highest balances during the year on each account is >$10k then I'm going to file an FBAR
4. When filing an FBAR I report every single account no matter how little the highest balance was.