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FBAR and $10.000

FBAR and $10.000

Old Jun 9th 2017, 4:55 pm
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Default FBAR and $10.000

Hey all, quick question surrounding FBAR as one of my UK coworkers was asking, and I want to make sure what I said is accurate.

the aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year reported.
So I told them if you have 3 UK accounts, you would have to add them all up, and if they combined crossed the $10k threshold, you would file. But he said "what if an account never at one time crossed $10k, but over the year there was more than $10k total if you added up the money coming in, but ignoring money going out."

Hypothetically, to simplify:
January $8k in, $7k out - $1k left in account at end of month
February $6k in, $5k out - $2k left in account at end of month
March - December no activity - $2k left in account

So, that foreign account saw $14k total come in and $12k went out in the year. In this scenario, the max that was ever in the account was $8k in January. You wouldn't file an FBAR, because no "accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year."

Is that correct? I hadn't thought of it like this before. I think the term "aggregate value" is throwing me off.

Thanks for any insight! I hadn't thought about FBAR's in a long time as I only have a UK bank account with ~$300 max a month for my student loan
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Old Jun 9th 2017, 5:26 pm
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

It's if the sum of all accounts you have exceeds $10,000 at any time.

How much money in and out across the year doesn't matter.
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Old Jun 9th 2017, 5:33 pm
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

Originally Posted by tom169 View Post
It's if the sum of all accounts you have exceeds $10,000 at any time.

How much money in and out across the year doesn't matter.
So you could have $50k income come in, but as long as there was never $10k at one time in the account, you wouldn't have to file?
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Old Jun 9th 2017, 5:57 pm
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

Originally Posted by livinginUSA View Post
So you could have $50k income come in, but as long as there was never $10k at one time in the account, you wouldn't have to file?
Correct, but remember the $10k is a sum and not just the individual account.
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Old Jun 9th 2017, 6:08 pm
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

Originally Posted by tom169 View Post
Correct, but remember the $10k is a sum and not just the individual account.
Sum of all accounts you mean?

I think I remember reading once that if you had $9990 in one account and $20 on an oyster card, you would have to file.
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Old Jun 9th 2017, 6:14 pm
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

Don't forget your pension accounts. That's what got me. I will be filing FBAR even if I have a negative balance in my bank account. I believe there is still no exclusion for pension funds.
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Old Jun 9th 2017, 6:24 pm
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
Don't forget your pension accounts. That's what got me. I will be filing FBAR even if I have a negative balance in my bank account. I believe there is still no exclusion for pension funds.
Private pensions only though, right?

As far as I know, the state pension isn't reportable:

‘Social Security’- type program benefits provided by a foreign government:

Form 8938, Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets - No
FinCEN Form 114, Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) - No
- https://www.irs.gov/businesses/compa...r-requirements
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Old Jun 9th 2017, 6:26 pm
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

Originally Posted by livinginUSA View Post
Private pensions only though, right?

As far as I know, the state pension isn't reportable:

- https://www.irs.gov/businesses/compa...r-requirements
Correct, just private pension
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Old Jun 9th 2017, 6:41 pm
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
Correct, just private pension

phew, that's a relief. Haven't thought about FBAR's in a long time. Had to reacquaint myself with all these rules.
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Old Jun 9th 2017, 11:53 pm
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

I've now started checking 'maximum balance unknown' across all my accounts in my latest FBAR. The paperwork behind it is just such a complete PITA.

Also, now I'm a US citizen, I just don't care as much.
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Old Jun 9th 2017, 11:54 pm
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

Originally Posted by tom169 View Post
Correct, but remember the $10k is a sum and not just the individual account.
Oh sorry - was being dumb and didn't think it through. To reiterate:

You could have $50k income come in throughout the year, but as long as there was never a combined sum of $10k at one time in any account you have, you would not have to file an FBAR

Right? Haha sorry - just want to go about not thinking about this again!
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Old Jun 10th 2017, 12:05 am
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

Originally Posted by hungryhorace View Post
I've now started checking 'maximum balance unknown' across all my accounts in my latest FBAR. The paperwork behind it is just such a complete PITA.

Also, now I'm a US citizen, I just don't care as much.
Am I missing something about not being as concerned about FBAR , once you have been indoctrinated into the USC world?
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Old Jun 10th 2017, 1:12 am
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
Am I missing something about not being as concerned about FBAR , once you have been indoctrinated into the USC world?
Well they can't remove a US citizen from the country, and they're never ever going to bother to review the FBARs unless you commit some major financial crime (I don't see that in my future for what it's worth!) so why bother going to all the effort of finding maximum account balances? It's a hugely invasive time sap for me to do it against the 20 odd accounts I have.

I just can't be bothered to do anything other than the bare basics for them now.
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Old Jun 10th 2017, 2:06 am
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

Originally Posted by livinginUSA View Post
Sum of all accounts you mean?

I think I remember reading once that if you had $9990 in one account and $20 on an oyster card, you would have to file.
And don't forget your Nectar Card. I believe I have about £14 on mine, I have no idea what I can do with it, but it is a financial account.
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Old Jun 10th 2017, 2:16 am
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Default Re: FBAR and $10.000

Originally Posted by hungryhorace View Post
Well they can't remove a US citizen from the country, and they're never ever going to bother to review the FBARs unless you commit some major financial crime (I don't see that in my future for what it's worth!) so why bother going to all the effort of finding maximum account balances? It's a hugely invasive time sap for me to do it against the 20 odd accounts I have.

I just can't be bothered to do anything other than the bare basics for them now.
The magic number of accounts is 25. If you have 25 or more accounts, you don't need to fill out the details - you merely have to state the number of accounts you have. This is where the Oyster Card, Nectar Card etc may come in useful - to get you over the 25.
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