Taffyles

It's already been proved that one dollar spent on preventative programmes for troubled youths saves 10 dollars down the track in criminal justice...and what does the government do? Cut programmes and build more prisons. Crazy. But when the country is neurotic about "socialism" "liberalism" and so on, they're going to keep wasting money trying to contain the situation rather than get to the core of the problem...its like putting a band aid on a festering sore.
ALL abusers were at one time the victims of abuse themselves- all serial killers were abused as children (Hitler was a severely abused child).... research studies show that 95% of inmates were abused as children....it doesn't take a PHD in social psychology to work out where the tax dollars SHOULD be spent. True enough, pedophiles cannot be cured, neither can serial killers/rapists etc...its way too late by then. victims can be helped- once they've crossed the line to become abusers- forget it, can't do anything with them then. Unless we start seriously funding intervention, preventative etc programmes we are going to continue to churn out monsters into the system. The death penalty achieves absolutely zilch, it creates more expenditure than banging someone up forever- god only knows what is spent on death row, appeals, attornies, courts.....- its a load of crap- by the time they actually give the lethal dose- probably millions have been spent. it doesn't deter anyone who is sick and acting out compulsively- neither will it deter crimes of passion...the only purpose it serves is it might give some satisfaction, I suppose, to the victims family, otherwise its about as useful as a fridge in the arctic. Just a huge expense. Getting back to the topic.. is it humane? I dunno- I'd think a firing squad might be more humane, certainly quicker- I think the whole rigmarole of putting someone to death with a gallery of watchers is barbaric actually. Aren't WE supposed to be the civilised ones?

rincewind

Hmmm..."Dr Phil" and "Entertainment" in the same sentence. Interesting

KarnalEcho

I agree, if someone hurt my kids(all 3) or my husband I'd probably end up there..............Doesn't mean I'm crazy,more than a temp. insanity.............less they can derive how much time and essence I put into the carvings

Just will be called temp. insane. We as aprents and people with loved ones need this. Hateful as it sounds, think of someone hurting your child in the most horrible fashion. Would it not make U insane?

KarnalEcho

Have you BEEN to tx?

KarnalEcho

So if we are " deranged" at birth we should have parents or guardians that keep an eye on use and teach us to the fullest? YES but will they? NO. Not everyone has it in them to be a good parent, look at the US statistics, it's unreal.
Not born "deranged" the same pedophile or murderer that SHOULD be burning at the stake has taken advantage of another child...................now what? Who's to teach them? Who's to listen? Who's to guide? Will you? I will to a certain point but there are a lot of hurt children in this world growing up feeling unworthy and unloved. What are you to do?

rincewind

Not all. Most are, but not all.

Jeffrey Dahmer was never abused as a child.

On the other side of the coin, many children that have had the misfortune to be abused, have not become serial killers.

I'll spare you the rest of my comments on your post.

rincewind

It's a nice thought, but will never happen. In truth, you will never really know when and why a murderer will do what he/she does until it's too late. You only discover the cause after the event.

KarnalEcho

but I bet more than 80% turn into murderers or torturers. Have not done that stats, might be surprised. Mentally, someone might can be turned into the right direction but the pain never goes away once a child is abused.
just my 2 cents

KarnalEcho

very true, it's ALWAYS after the fact

Taffyles

I'll bet Dahmer was abused, in some form or other, somewhere along the line.
Abused children take one of two paths "if not treated" for the abuse, or helped in some way, they either remain victims (end up marrying abusive spouses etc) or become abusers themselves (not necassarily abusing children).. stats show about 50/50.
ALL pedophiles were themselves sexually abused as children. That's not to say that all children who are sexually abused grow up to become pedophiles, but it is a cycle. The death penalty isn't going to stop that cycle.
All serial killers have been abused physically/mentally or emotionally- and there have been definite signs in childhood of something radically wrong. And sure, not all children who have been physically or emotionally abused end up as serial killers- they might end up on skid row instead of death row, even as power hungry politicians LOL. Which path they take depends on their inborn characteristics, circumstances, environment etc...unless they are helped, young enough.

KarnalEcho

I looked it up, he was never abused. Simply a young 13 year old boy whose parents were going through a horrible divorce and he couldn't hndl it(er something like that)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/caseclosed/dahmer1.shtml

EVERYONE has a breaking point I don't care what anyone says

Though another site says his father stated Joyce, Jeffrey's mother took some form of tranquilizers while pregnant http://www.goodbyemag.com/nov00/flint.html

rincewind

From The Crime Library

"Not all serial killers were beaten or abused as children. Jeffrey Dahmer had an apparently normal upbringing, yet grew up to be one of the most notorious sex murderers in popular culture. In his book A Father's Story, Lionel Dahmer searches for answers to his own son's deviance. Lionel, who describes himself as an "analytical thinker," believes that Jeffrey's mother's hysteria and psychosomatic illnesses during pregnancy might be responsible."

"At age 4, Jeffrey had a double hernia, and had to have surgery. "So much pain, I learned later, that he had asked Joyce if the doctors had cut off his penis." Lionel thinks this quasi-castrating surgery affected his son: "In Jeff, this flattening began to take on a sense of something permanent," he wrote. "This strange and subtle inner darkening began to appear almost physically. His hair, which had once been so light, grew steadily darker, along with the deeper shading of his eyes. More than anything, he seemed to grow more inward, sitting quietly for long periods, hardly stirring, his face oddly motionless."

You can bet all you want. Dahmer was not abused as a child. Not everyone fits into the text book version of a serial killer.

Anyone of us can snap at any time at any given moment. There is always a trigger for this event. In Dahmer's case, it could well have been the operation at age four.

For others it may be abuse but not always so.

A disgruntled worker is fired by his employer. He goes on a killing spree. The trigger is the life changing event of being fired. The person snaps and all sense of reason is lost and goes on the spree.

Again, incorrect.

Sexual victimization and sexual delinquency: Vampire or Pinocchio syndrome?

It would appear that some sex offenders falsely claim that they were victimized as a way of explaining or excusing their own sex crimes. We do not know how widespread this practice is, but an American study of sex offenders showed that after they were told that they would be subject to a polygraph test, the percentage of those claiming sexual victimization dropped from 67% to 29%.

The link contains additional information.

Taffyles

Yes and had seizures while pregnant etc- Papa also says that Dahmer became introverted about age 6. By the time he graduated high school he was an alcoholic. Classic signs. I bet he was abused outside the home- and his parents likely knew nothing about it. Kids abused by pedophiles are invariably blackmailed into keeping quiet about it. Mama was a depressive, used to run off and sit in a field to escape her husband. You know these aren't happy family signs. Anyway, we'll never know- the guy's dead, his mother's dead and his father is milking the story (his version of it anyway). By the time they got Dahmer he was a sick depraved specimen of a human being.

Taffyles

=rincewindFrom The Crime Library

"Not all serial killers were beaten or abused as children. Jeffrey Dahmer had an apparently normal upbringing, yet grew up to be one of the most notorious sex murderers in popular culture. In his book A Father's Story, Lionel Dahmer searches for answers to his own son's deviance. Lionel, who describes himself as an "analytical thinker," believes that Jeffrey's mother's hysteria and psychosomatic illnesses during pregnancy might be responsible."

[hmmm mother had an hysterical pregnancy and was a depressive - doesn't bode well for a normal upbringing- maybe she emotionally abandoned Dahmer at birth (that's abuse)...abuse isn't just beating or raping..some of the more subtle forms of abuse are much more damaging.]

"At age 4, Jeffrey had a double hernia, and had to have surgery. "So much pain, I learned later, that he had asked Joyce if the doctors had cut off his penis." Lionel thinks this quasi-castrating surgery affected his son: "In Jeff, this flattening began to take on a sense of something permanent," he wrote. "This strange and subtle inner darkening began to appear almost physically. His hair, which had once been so light, grew steadily darker, along with the deeper shading of his eyes. More than anything, he seemed to grow more inward, sitting quietly for long periods, hardly stirring, his face oddly motionless."

You can bet all you want. Dahmer was not abused as a child. Not everyone fits into the text book version of a serial killer.

[There is no text book version of a serial killer]

Anyone of us can snap at any time at any given moment. There is always a trigger for this event. In Dahmer's case, it could well have been the operation at age four.

For others it may be abuse but not always so.

A disgruntled worker is fired by his employer. He goes on a killing spree. The trigger is the life changing event of being fired. The person snaps and all sense of reason is lost and goes on the spree.

[surely the difference is in the term 'serial' ]



Again, incorrect.

Sexual victimization and sexual delinquency: Vampire or Pinocchio syndrome?

It would appear that some sex offenders falsely claim that they were victimized as a way of explaining or excusing their own sex crimes. We do not know how widespread this practice is, but an American study of sex offenders showed that after they were told that they would be subject to a polygraph test, the percentage of those claiming sexual victimization dropped from 67% to 29%.

The link contains additional information.

[This is a what? research study by correctional officers? They reference books/studies done mostly in the 80's- e.g'. the reference to "the American study" you quoted was done in '88.
I've got a ton of reseach from college days- I can dig it all out and scan it- a lot more heavy reading than that article though..but more recent data.

It's all speculation now about Dahmer.. he's dead, his mother never talked really and is also dead- his father is searching for reasons and making money off it....

robskatie

I should have known you would have a go at this FB
I totally agree with you, I was just trying to give a situation