IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
Oct 2nd 2007, 3:54 pm
#166
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,455
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
When I went to school in England there was a white boy with very curly hair and he got called "Kunta Kinte" all the time. Racism was rife and socially acceptable among many of the adults.
When I went to a British Forces school in Germany with kids from all over the world there was no apparent problem.
When I went to a British Forces school in Germany with kids from all over the world there was no apparent problem.
Oct 2nd 2007, 4:13 pm
#167
...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,165
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
I can understand how frustrating it must feel to love your birth country with true devotion yet feel the life you are living there is limited and dishonored because Great Britain's majority society is evolving so slowly in terms of humanity.In many ways your generation(like in America circa 1960's) has to be a stepping stone for the people coming after you.Taking it on the chin so other minorities will have a better quality of life and greater acceptance as individuals in the future.Sadly that is the case and you would be perfectly correct to consider leaving for a different nation that is more progressive.Who would want to subject them self to the ignorance of others just to maintain a connection to land that at time make you question if you are achieving all that you can in your life.There is a price to be paid for being a martar.African Americans know this all too well.I wonder sometime how my parents and grandparants tolerated that level of ignorance in their day.With out question they are the greatest generation of leaders this country has ever seen.
Young and middle age Blacks,Latinos and Asians have it so much better here because of the sacrifices of African Americans who fought to change this nation thinking and laws about human rights.A Martin Luther King is truely a God send.I have allways wondered why a similar type leader such as Jessie Jackson,or Al Sharpton hasn't come up from the grass roots in Europe,for sure there is a need for it.I know of Bernie Grant,more good men and women like him are needed.I agree that motivational role models are very important to every culture.That might explain why successful African Americans are hugh role models for the youth in Europe,Africa and much of the world .The UK will become a better nation to all its citizens.Might take some time but it will happen because many Brits will work to make things better.The biggest challenge and the most important achievements must occure in corporate UK.More Blacks must attain positions of power so the kind of harrassment you suffered will not be tolerated, and that begins with education and internships.That is how the UK will become a better place to live and work for black ,brown ,white and alike.Look at CNN news which btw is ran by a CEO Black american.Those are the type of success stories that one day will happen in Great Britain I believe.
Young and middle age Blacks,Latinos and Asians have it so much better here because of the sacrifices of African Americans who fought to change this nation thinking and laws about human rights.A Martin Luther King is truely a God send.I have allways wondered why a similar type leader such as Jessie Jackson,or Al Sharpton hasn't come up from the grass roots in Europe,for sure there is a need for it.I know of Bernie Grant,more good men and women like him are needed.I agree that motivational role models are very important to every culture.That might explain why successful African Americans are hugh role models for the youth in Europe,Africa and much of the world .The UK will become a better nation to all its citizens.Might take some time but it will happen because many Brits will work to make things better.The biggest challenge and the most important achievements must occure in corporate UK.More Blacks must attain positions of power so the kind of harrassment you suffered will not be tolerated, and that begins with education and internships.That is how the UK will become a better place to live and work for black ,brown ,white and alike.Look at CNN news which btw is ran by a CEO Black american.Those are the type of success stories that one day will happen in Great Britain I believe.
Most of my role models are American, Martin Luther king, Malcolm X, Muhammed Ali, Johnny Cochran and I know for many of the women Oprah Winfrey is their role model. I also read about the great heights some Afro Americans have reached with astonishment, I mean CEO's of insurance companies and other big corporations. I think we have a long time to go before this comes and it is more black women climbing the corporate ladder now. Personally I think a lot of the guys have just been ground down, just worn out by the constant battle. I know a few have already emigrated.
However as another great Afro American speaker who goes by the name of 'Les Brown' says, when life knocks you down always try and land on your back, because if you can look up you can get up !!!He was partly the reason why I once quadroupled my contract rate.
One morning whilst listening to a motivational tape of his he said 'always reach for the top because the bottom is over crowded. That is when I realised I had to come out of the mentality of only applying for lowly paid contracts fearing I would not be considered or was not worthy enough to apply for the highest paying contracts even though I knew I was very good at what I did. Once I got past this I started applying for and landing the big contracts. Thank you God for leading me to that Les Brown speech !!
It's funny because in a way I feel I have to start again because to be honest things have kind of ground to a halt for me here I have already made preparations to leave and live in my mothers land of birth and that is St Lucia, and I know a few others my age have already made the transition.
My land is waiting and all I have to do is go and build the house now.
I will also be much closer to Miami where we have some good friends and maybe some opportunities will arise.
At least I will be debt free living there and I will be able to walk to the best beach on the island in 10-15 mins and wake up seeing the glorious mountains every morning. Hopefully I will be appreciated just for who I am, because I know I have a lot to offer, but have just come to a standstill in the UK and it is time to move on.
Oct 2nd 2007, 4:44 pm
#168
...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,165
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
I should add that you guys have made me see things much clearer and this has been great therapy actually speaking to others of all backgrounds openly about this, and at least I feel as though I can move on now.
Thank you all !!!
I do not have to be here just existing, just scraping by, what kind of existence is that ? I rose the ranks once, and know I can do it again, maybe in another field and maybe in another country, but for sure I can do it.
I have a sound education, good common sense, a good sense of humour and have at least invested in land and property at the right time. So therefor I have a good base to relaunch myself.
Gosh I am almost trying to convince myself of my self worth!!!
Thank you all !!!
I do not have to be here just existing, just scraping by, what kind of existence is that ? I rose the ranks once, and know I can do it again, maybe in another field and maybe in another country, but for sure I can do it.
I have a sound education, good common sense, a good sense of humour and have at least invested in land and property at the right time. So therefor I have a good base to relaunch myself.
Gosh I am almost trying to convince myself of my self worth!!!
Oct 2nd 2007, 4:51 pm
#169
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
I should add that you guys have made me see things much clearer and this has been great therapy actually speaking to others of all backgrounds openly about this, and at least I feel as though I can move on now.
Thank you all !!!
I do not have to be here just existing, just scraping by, what kind of existence is that ? I rose the ranks once, and know I can do it again, maybe in another field and maybe in another country, but for sure I can do it.
I have a sound education, good common sense, a good sense of humour and have at least invested in land and property at the right time. So therefor I have a good base to relaunch myself.
Gosh I am almost trying to convince myself of my self worth!!!
Thank you all !!!
I do not have to be here just existing, just scraping by, what kind of existence is that ? I rose the ranks once, and know I can do it again, maybe in another field and maybe in another country, but for sure I can do it.
I have a sound education, good common sense, a good sense of humour and have at least invested in land and property at the right time. So therefor I have a good base to relaunch myself.
Gosh I am almost trying to convince myself of my self worth!!!
Give us all an update in the future.
Oct 2nd 2007, 5:07 pm
#170
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 557
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
The UK is actually in Europe but very different in every aspect compared to other continental european countries : class/religion/football team is more of an issue than race in the UK in everyday life encounter.
I do certainly think in the US there are more racial tensions than in the UK based on the following : mixed couples are more common in the UK compared to the US.
I do agree with you about the US being more progressive in terms of professionaL advancement to coloured people compared to the rest of the world.
I do certainly think in the US there are more racial tensions than in the UK based on the following : mixed couples are more common in the UK compared to the US.
I do agree with you about the US being more progressive in terms of professionaL advancement to coloured people compared to the rest of the world.
I have no idea on this within professional roles but I will say my eldest was gobsmacked when we arrived in NJ, she was asked by a white USC girl if in the Uk we had lower class people to do the menial (sp) jobs.
She then went on to inform my daughter that in NJ the mexicans were all low class.
Hope I never hear my kids talk of others like that.
Oct 2nd 2007, 5:24 pm
#171
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Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Nevada b4 California b4 Colorado b4 Valley of plastic and sand, b4 London
Posts: 2,025
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
I heard the same thing down, when I lived in Texas, there is certainly a big divide between Hispanic Americans and Mexicans.
In reality, it boils down to economics.
In reality, it boils down to economics.
I have no idea on this within professional roles but I will say my eldest was gobsmacked when we arrived in NJ, she was asked by a white USC girl if in the Uk we had lower class people to do the menial (sp) jobs.
She then went on to inform my daughter that in NJ the mexicans were all low class.
Hope I never hear my kids talk of others like that.
She then went on to inform my daughter that in NJ the mexicans were all low class.
Hope I never hear my kids talk of others like that.
Oct 2nd 2007, 10:55 pm
#172
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Orlando,Florida,living in Buckinghamshire for next 6 weeks.
Posts: 1,416
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
I should add that you guys have made me see things much clearer and this has been great therapy actually speaking to others of all backgrounds openly about this, and at least I feel as though I can move on now.
Thank you all !!!
I do not have to be here just existing, just scraping by, what kind of existence is that ? I rose the ranks once, and know I can do it again, maybe in another field and maybe in another country, but for sure I can do it.
I have a sound education, good common sense, a good sense of humour and have at least invested in land and property at the right time. So therefor I have a good base to relaunch myself.
Gosh I am almost trying to convince myself of my self worth!!!
Thank you all !!!
I do not have to be here just existing, just scraping by, what kind of existence is that ? I rose the ranks once, and know I can do it again, maybe in another field and maybe in another country, but for sure I can do it.
I have a sound education, good common sense, a good sense of humour and have at least invested in land and property at the right time. So therefor I have a good base to relaunch myself.
Gosh I am almost trying to convince myself of my self worth!!!
Oct 3rd 2007, 12:54 am
#173
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Orlando,Florida,living in Buckinghamshire for next 6 weeks.
Posts: 1,416
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
You have a great insight into the situation, and it was only this week during conversations with friends and family we were talking about having to be the sacraficial generation for our childrens sake. I still sometimes worry what the future holds when I see so many young black boys here lost and uncertain of where they are going. There is a desperate need for role models here.
Most of my role models are American, Martin Luther king, Malcolm X, Muhammed Ali, Johnny Cochran and I know for many of the women Oprah Winfrey is their role model. I also read about the great heights some Afro Americans have reached with astonishment, I mean CEO's of insurance companies and other big corporations. I think we have a long time to go before this comes and it is more black women climbing the corporate ladder now. Personally I think a lot of the guys have just been ground down, just worn out by the constant battle. I know a few have already emigrated.
However as another great Afro American speaker who goes by the name of 'Les Brown' says, when life knocks you down always try and land on your back, because if you can look up you can get up !!!He was partly the reason why I once quadroupled my contract rate.
One morning whilst listening to a motivational tape of his he said 'always reach for the top because the bottom is over crowded. That is when I realised I had to come out of the mentality of only applying for lowly paid contracts fearing I would not be considered or was not worthy enough to apply for the highest paying contracts even though I knew I was very good at what I did. Once I got past this I started applying for and landing the big contracts. Thank you God for leading me to that Les Brown speech !!
It's funny because in a way I feel I have to start again because to be honest things have kind of ground to a halt for me here I have already made preparations to leave and live in my mothers land of birth and that is St Lucia, and I know a few others my age have already made the transition.
My land is waiting and all I have to do is go and build the house now.
I will also be much closer to Miami where we have some good friends and maybe some opportunities will arise.
At least I will be debt free living there and I will be able to walk to the best beach on the island in 10-15 mins and wake up seeing the glorious mountains every morning. Hopefully I will be appreciated just for who I am, because I know I have a lot to offer, but have just come to a standstill in the UK and it is time to move on.
Most of my role models are American, Martin Luther king, Malcolm X, Muhammed Ali, Johnny Cochran and I know for many of the women Oprah Winfrey is their role model. I also read about the great heights some Afro Americans have reached with astonishment, I mean CEO's of insurance companies and other big corporations. I think we have a long time to go before this comes and it is more black women climbing the corporate ladder now. Personally I think a lot of the guys have just been ground down, just worn out by the constant battle. I know a few have already emigrated.
However as another great Afro American speaker who goes by the name of 'Les Brown' says, when life knocks you down always try and land on your back, because if you can look up you can get up !!!He was partly the reason why I once quadroupled my contract rate.
One morning whilst listening to a motivational tape of his he said 'always reach for the top because the bottom is over crowded. That is when I realised I had to come out of the mentality of only applying for lowly paid contracts fearing I would not be considered or was not worthy enough to apply for the highest paying contracts even though I knew I was very good at what I did. Once I got past this I started applying for and landing the big contracts. Thank you God for leading me to that Les Brown speech !!
It's funny because in a way I feel I have to start again because to be honest things have kind of ground to a halt for me here I have already made preparations to leave and live in my mothers land of birth and that is St Lucia, and I know a few others my age have already made the transition.
My land is waiting and all I have to do is go and build the house now.
I will also be much closer to Miami where we have some good friends and maybe some opportunities will arise.
At least I will be debt free living there and I will be able to walk to the best beach on the island in 10-15 mins and wake up seeing the glorious mountains every morning. Hopefully I will be appreciated just for who I am, because I know I have a lot to offer, but have just come to a standstill in the UK and it is time to move on.
Most people in america who foster racist beliefs in the work place are terrorfied of being labeled a racist.A good lawyer can take a racist case and destroy the reputation of a company that allows anti social behavior to demoralize a member of the working staff.There are federal laws that govern what is not permited in the work place.In the northern states racism takes on a more covert approach,because employer/emplyee behavior are watched much closer by civil rights groups which are in abundance and most emplyers more often than not will do their level best to achieve fair employment in order to acquire tax breaks given to corporations.
It pays extra to offer women and minorities the opportunity to succeed.Not the promise of employment but the right to be given a chance and if the employer decides to hire women or minorities then the employer has the motivational goal of additional tax breaks for their company.Many conservative groups hate this but there is little they can do to end these incentives.Most of this was born out of the civil rights movement .Believe it or not women have benefited the most from African Americans fight for equal justice under the law,which I think is wonderful.A rising tide should lift all boats!!There is no perfect place to live all though Hawaii,Florida,California and Washington states come pretty close.I think its a matter of going after as much success possible and fighting for what we want in order to accomplish our dreams,and ignoring any and all nay sayers.
Oct 3rd 2007, 3:43 pm
#174
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 18
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
I have no idea on this within professional roles but I will say my eldest was gobsmacked when we arrived in NJ, she was asked by a white USC girl if in the Uk we had lower class people to do the menial (sp) jobs.
She then went on to inform my daughter that in NJ the mexicans were all low class.
Hope I never hear my kids talk of others like that.
She then went on to inform my daughter that in NJ the mexicans were all low class.
Hope I never hear my kids talk of others like that.
I remember a white South African girl joined our company in London, just after the Apartheid era. She'd just been to the loo and walked back into the office (IT, open plan) and said quite loudly 'But why is a white woman cleaning the toilets...'
...the silence was deafening....went over like a lead balloon...felt really proud of everyone's reaction. I almost felt sorry for her....
Oct 3rd 2007, 6:04 pm
#175
Democracy advocate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,460
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
I think at the time I should have spoken to more people about this, but we are taught to put on a brave face and just get on with things whilst we bottle a lot of stuff up inside. The chap who started it all has since emigrated to Australia, he claimed he was leaving Britain because there was too many immigrants (as though there are non in Australia).
Before he joined I thought I got on great with my project manager, but she changed dramatically when she started hanging out with him and I suppose the rest just joined in. I still believe she is a good person who was just led astray, but who knows.
I am not really bothered about the rest but I would have liked an apology from her as I know she knows much better and at least we could of made peace. I hate leaving things like this and I like to have peace and unity with everyone.
White Britain as a whole are a great bunch of people, but you have to remember the media creates and causes a lot of distrust of black folk.
If there is a shooting or something negative happens in the black community it is all over the news, just the bad stuff.
There are hardly no black British positive programmes on mainstream TV, like for instance the 'Cosby's from the states. The kind of British films which make TV are things like 'Baby Father', a group of black friends with women and kids all over the place.
There are hardly no black leading figures in politics, we had one 'Bernie Grant', but sadly he died a few years back. The biggest black event shown once a year on TV( not prime time) is the MOBO's a music award show.
Black teachers are few and far between, so where does this leave the black kids, when nearly all the authoritive figures they see out of the home are white. Hence the inferiority complex.
This also aids the view to a lot of white folks that black guys are bad news and hence the underlying suspicions.
How do we break down the barriers ? By being as good a citizen as we can and showing other races that the majority of us are just decent hard working people who want to better our lives if given a chance.
A few years back a few of us were thinking of packing it in and heading off to Atlanta or Canada to start again, but hey I was born in Britain, have a british sense of humour, have paid my taxes and believe the majority of people here are still tolerant to others.
Before he joined I thought I got on great with my project manager, but she changed dramatically when she started hanging out with him and I suppose the rest just joined in. I still believe she is a good person who was just led astray, but who knows.
I am not really bothered about the rest but I would have liked an apology from her as I know she knows much better and at least we could of made peace. I hate leaving things like this and I like to have peace and unity with everyone.
White Britain as a whole are a great bunch of people, but you have to remember the media creates and causes a lot of distrust of black folk.
If there is a shooting or something negative happens in the black community it is all over the news, just the bad stuff.
There are hardly no black British positive programmes on mainstream TV, like for instance the 'Cosby's from the states. The kind of British films which make TV are things like 'Baby Father', a group of black friends with women and kids all over the place.
There are hardly no black leading figures in politics, we had one 'Bernie Grant', but sadly he died a few years back. The biggest black event shown once a year on TV( not prime time) is the MOBO's a music award show.
Black teachers are few and far between, so where does this leave the black kids, when nearly all the authoritive figures they see out of the home are white. Hence the inferiority complex.
This also aids the view to a lot of white folks that black guys are bad news and hence the underlying suspicions.
How do we break down the barriers ? By being as good a citizen as we can and showing other races that the majority of us are just decent hard working people who want to better our lives if given a chance.
A few years back a few of us were thinking of packing it in and heading off to Atlanta or Canada to start again, but hey I was born in Britain, have a british sense of humour, have paid my taxes and believe the majority of people here are still tolerant to others.
Black TV shows - MOBO etc - why on earth should there be a music show for black people? I would be disgusted if there was a "white persons music" TV show or something similar, black people excel in the musical arts, why would you need to self segregate in such a way?
Black role models? I see this as still intrinsically racist, I am a white, British male and I see Kelly Holmes as a fantastic role model - amazing skills and dedication to her sport, erudite, fantastic. I don't understand why role models have to be of the same colour or gender for them to be a role model.
Black people have not done as well in business (etc) sectors doubtless partly through racism, but also due to a higher percentage of black people coming from poorer backgrounds with less access to education and a culture that has not valued it. White trash are also not well represented in the higher echelons of the business sector, whereas the white middle and upper classes are.
Positive discrimination (affirmative action) programs in the US seem madness to me. Surely we should endeavor to provide all walks of life with similar opportunities (free education), but offering government contracts for "minority owned businesses" seems like government sanctioned racism to me. I would be disgusted if I saw contracts from a City or County that were "white people only need apply", I find it similarly disgusting that there are "minority owned" type contracts.
United Negro College Fund? Can you imagine a "middle class white persons university fund" in the UK?
In the US is was illegal in most states for a black person to marry a white person up until the last 1960's. Damn, there were rednecks from the south still trying to string black people up around that time. I have heard and seen more racism and more racialising of issues that have no basis in race, in my time in the US than I ever heard in the UK.
By the way, I fully agree about the media, nothing like whipping up some racial froth to sell product.
Last edited by Cape Blue; Oct 3rd 2007 at 6:06 pm.
Oct 3rd 2007, 6:12 pm
#176
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 15,019
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
totally agree with that comment. i used to think maybe i had been oblivious to it when living in the uk but my confirmation of your statement is highlighted when brit friends stay here for a week or two and they bring the subject up.
Oct 3rd 2007, 7:28 pm
#177
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 18
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
I'm not sure I really get with everything you are saying here PG. I have no doubt whatsoever that you have experienced racism in the UK and I certainly don't think I can fully put myself in your shoes, but my experience of living in the US and the UK shows the US to be far worse in terms of racialising almost everything.
Black TV shows - MOBO etc - why on earth should there be a music show for black people? I would be disgusted if there was a "white persons music" TV show or something similar, black people excel in the musical arts, why would you need to self segregate in such a way?
Black role models? I see this as still intrinsically racist, I am a white, British male and I see Kelly Holmes as a fantastic role model - amazing skills and dedication to her sport, erudite, fantastic. I don't understand why role models have to be of the same colour or gender for them to be a role model.
Black people have not done as well in business (etc) sectors doubtless partly through racism, but also due to a higher percentage of black people coming from poorer backgrounds with less access to education and a culture that has not valued it. White trash are also not well represented in the higher echelons of the business sector, whereas the white middle and upper classes are.
Positive discrimination (affirmative action) programs in the US seem madness to me. Surely we should endeavor to provide all walks of life with similar opportunities (free education), but offering government contracts for "minority owned businesses" seems like government sanctioned racism to me. I would be disgusted if I saw contracts from a City or County that were "white people only need apply", I find it similarly disgusting that there are "minority owned" type contracts.
United Negro College Fund? Can you imagine a "middle class white persons university fund" in the UK?
In the US is was illegal in most states for a black person to marry a white person up until the last 1960's. Damn, there were rednecks from the south still trying to string black people up around that time. I have heard and seen more racism and more racialising of issues that have no basis in race, in my time in the US than I ever heard in the UK.
By the way, I fully agree about the media, nothing like whipping up some racial froth to sell product.
Black TV shows - MOBO etc - why on earth should there be a music show for black people? I would be disgusted if there was a "white persons music" TV show or something similar, black people excel in the musical arts, why would you need to self segregate in such a way?
Black role models? I see this as still intrinsically racist, I am a white, British male and I see Kelly Holmes as a fantastic role model - amazing skills and dedication to her sport, erudite, fantastic. I don't understand why role models have to be of the same colour or gender for them to be a role model.
Black people have not done as well in business (etc) sectors doubtless partly through racism, but also due to a higher percentage of black people coming from poorer backgrounds with less access to education and a culture that has not valued it. White trash are also not well represented in the higher echelons of the business sector, whereas the white middle and upper classes are.
Positive discrimination (affirmative action) programs in the US seem madness to me. Surely we should endeavor to provide all walks of life with similar opportunities (free education), but offering government contracts for "minority owned businesses" seems like government sanctioned racism to me. I would be disgusted if I saw contracts from a City or County that were "white people only need apply", I find it similarly disgusting that there are "minority owned" type contracts.
United Negro College Fund? Can you imagine a "middle class white persons university fund" in the UK?
In the US is was illegal in most states for a black person to marry a white person up until the last 1960's. Damn, there were rednecks from the south still trying to string black people up around that time. I have heard and seen more racism and more racialising of issues that have no basis in race, in my time in the US than I ever heard in the UK.
By the way, I fully agree about the media, nothing like whipping up some racial froth to sell product.
In a nutshell you want blacks to ‘move on’ from the tragedies of history. It’s a simplistic view of very complex issues.
We can do this all day.
Here’s all I have to say in reply to you – don’t forget that white society has 500 years of advancement over the blacks in the US. Blacks are playing catch-up in arenas they had no access to. Affirmative action is meant to help them get there
There is also a need to congregate for their own issues and support….also a need to create and develop their own award shows etc., to recognize deserving black actors, artists and others who would never be recognized if it were left up to the so called "mainstream" award shows etc
There is a need until such a time as there is a level playing field for ALL minority groups (Blacks, Asians, gays, women, the handicapped etc….). We're not there yet.
Oct 3rd 2007, 7:30 pm
#178
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,367
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
I'm not sure I really get with everything you are saying here PG. I have no doubt whatsoever that you have experienced racism in the UK and I certainly don't think I can fully put myself in your shoes, but my experience of living in the US and the UK shows the US to be far worse in terms of racialising almost everything.
Black TV shows - MOBO etc - why on earth should there be a music show for black people? I would be disgusted if there was a "white persons music" TV show or something similar, black people excel in the musical arts, why would you need to self segregate in such a way?
Black role models? I see this as still intrinsically racist, I am a white, British male and I see Kelly Holmes as a fantastic role model - amazing skills and dedication to her sport, erudite, fantastic. I don't understand why role models have to be of the same colour or gender for them to be a role model.
Black people have not done as well in business (etc) sectors doubtless partly through racism, but also due to a higher percentage of black people coming from poorer backgrounds with less access to education and a culture that has not valued it. White trash are also not well represented in the higher echelons of the business sector, whereas the white middle and upper classes are.
Positive discrimination (affirmative action) programs in the US seem madness to me. Surely we should endeavor to provide all walks of life with similar opportunities (free education), but offering government contracts for "minority owned businesses" seems like government sanctioned racism to me. I would be disgusted if I saw contracts from a City or County that were "white people only need apply", I find it similarly disgusting that there are "minority owned" type contracts.
United Negro College Fund? Can you imagine a "middle class white persons university fund" in the UK?
In the US is was illegal in most states for a black person to marry a white person up until the last 1960's. Damn, there were rednecks from the south still trying to string black people up around that time. I have heard and seen more racism and more racialising of issues that have no basis in race, in my time in the US than I ever heard in the UK.
By the way, I fully agree about the media, nothing like whipping up some racial froth to sell product.
Black TV shows - MOBO etc - why on earth should there be a music show for black people? I would be disgusted if there was a "white persons music" TV show or something similar, black people excel in the musical arts, why would you need to self segregate in such a way?
Black role models? I see this as still intrinsically racist, I am a white, British male and I see Kelly Holmes as a fantastic role model - amazing skills and dedication to her sport, erudite, fantastic. I don't understand why role models have to be of the same colour or gender for them to be a role model.
Black people have not done as well in business (etc) sectors doubtless partly through racism, but also due to a higher percentage of black people coming from poorer backgrounds with less access to education and a culture that has not valued it. White trash are also not well represented in the higher echelons of the business sector, whereas the white middle and upper classes are.
Positive discrimination (affirmative action) programs in the US seem madness to me. Surely we should endeavor to provide all walks of life with similar opportunities (free education), but offering government contracts for "minority owned businesses" seems like government sanctioned racism to me. I would be disgusted if I saw contracts from a City or County that were "white people only need apply", I find it similarly disgusting that there are "minority owned" type contracts.
United Negro College Fund? Can you imagine a "middle class white persons university fund" in the UK?
In the US is was illegal in most states for a black person to marry a white person up until the last 1960's. Damn, there were rednecks from the south still trying to string black people up around that time. I have heard and seen more racism and more racialising of issues that have no basis in race, in my time in the US than I ever heard in the UK.
By the way, I fully agree about the media, nothing like whipping up some racial froth to sell product.
You must be full of bliss.
Oct 3rd 2007, 7:49 pm
#179
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
This reminds me of a line from a Chris Rock show: "There's not a White man in this room that would trade places with me, and I'm rich". 
Oct 3rd 2007, 9:45 pm
#180
Democracy advocate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,460
Re: IS EUROPE MORE RACIST THAN AMERICA?
Cape blue,
In a nutshell you want blacks to ‘move on’ from the tragedies of history. It’s a simplistic view of very complex issues.
We can do this all day.
Here’s all I have to say in reply to you – don’t forget that white society has 500 years of advancement over the blacks in the US. Blacks are playing catch-up in arenas they had no access to. Affirmative action is meant to help them get there
There is also a need to congregate for their own issues and support….also a need to create and develop their own award shows etc., to recognize deserving black actors, artists and others who would never be recognized if it were left up to the so called "mainstream" award shows etc
There is a need until such a time as there is a level playing field for ALL minority groups (Blacks, Asians, gays, women, the handicapped etc….). We're not there yet.
In a nutshell you want blacks to ‘move on’ from the tragedies of history. It’s a simplistic view of very complex issues.
We can do this all day.
Here’s all I have to say in reply to you – don’t forget that white society has 500 years of advancement over the blacks in the US. Blacks are playing catch-up in arenas they had no access to. Affirmative action is meant to help them get there
There is also a need to congregate for their own issues and support….also a need to create and develop their own award shows etc., to recognize deserving black actors, artists and others who would never be recognized if it were left up to the so called "mainstream" award shows etc
There is a need until such a time as there is a level playing field for ALL minority groups (Blacks, Asians, gays, women, the handicapped etc….). We're not there yet.
Positive discrimination has plenty of historic arguments for it, but at the end of the day you are saying to one group that you are favouring another group due to race. It wasn't right in the past, I cannot see how it is right now.
500 years of development advantage means nothing to a white or Asian or Latino American born into a poor family - they have the same chances in life today as a poor black American. But no the same access to positive discrimination.
It looks more like a condescending pat on the head for the black person saying that we know they are not good enough to compete on their own so we will give them a free ride. Does this not detract from those who acheive greatness through own skills, when there is the lingering doubt that they would not have, had it not been for affirmitive action.
Black Americans excel in various mainstreams of endeavour, music & sports are two of the most promoted and well paid sectors, why would you want to create a racially divided set of awards in an area you already excel in?
I believe firmly in equality of opportunity (not outcome) for all groups, but I can't see how affirmitive action fits with that.
Last edited by Cape Blue; Oct 3rd 2007 at 9:48 pm. Reason: spell check thing went whacked
