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EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Old Jun 29th 2020, 7:37 am
  #16  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Originally Posted by petitefrancaise View Post
yes of course.
which is why I think your Brazilian friend is talking out of his backside.
I agree that sounds totally bogus. Some countries have similar policies to the USA where it is the law that for citizens you enter and leave on your country’s passport. Australia is like that, my daughter’s husband has to use his Australian passport in, and US passport out, plus Australia has exit controls where your passport is checked by border control. (Been there and done that a few times myself). For an Australian dual US citizen they have to show their Australian passport at border control on their way out after showing their US Passport at check in with the airline.

I always carry my UK and US passports and use my UK passport entering the UK and US passport entering the US.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 11:07 am
  #17  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Originally Posted by steph0scope View Post
A vaccine? That could take 10 years or more. And need to be changed every year like the flu vaccine.

Some work colleagues whose trips to “Europe” this summer (the usual 10 countries in 7 days “I’ve done Europe” thing) are in the balance depending on how the ruling goes, have been reminded by me that it’s only fair that they be banned from Europe as long as Europeans are banned from coming here. I was supposed to see my mother for the first time in 2 years last month but she was banned from coming here. So I can’t shed any tears that their cruises from Venice have been canceled.
That is what Facui said which raises an interesting question. How do persons entering the country prove that have been vaccinated against this thing? Will they show a letter from GP which could be forged? And CPB would find it near impossible to prove it wasn't especially with European GDPR and even Doc/Patient confidentiality. And most people will not have a needle stuck in them at the border to be tested for antibodies not a chance in hell. Even if those test can be returned in x minutes. The delays of attempting that would be beyond imagination.

Last edited by andyrebell; Jun 29th 2020 at 12:02 pm.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 12:16 pm
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Originally Posted by andyrebell View Post
That is what Facui said which raises an interesting question. How do persons entering the country prove that have been vaccinated against this thing? Will they show a letter from GP which could be forged? And CPB would find it near impossible to prove it wasn't especially with European GDPR and even Doc/Patient confidentiality. And most people will not have a needle stuck in them at the border to be tested for antibodies not a chance in hell. Even if those test can be returned in x minutes. The delays of attempting that would be beyond imagination.
not you again. Honestly, did you ever finish high school?
Have a think for a minute - when most people enter the USA for a visit, they get an ESTA and they do not have to show that they have been vaccinated against a whole range of very highly infectious diseases. Measles for example. Why do you think that is?
All along we have said that the restrictions will be in place until a vaccine is widely available. Once that is achieved and people start being vaccinated, it doesn't matter if every now and again someone without a vaccine or even with covid19 enters a country because the virus needs to come into contact with unvaccinated people to spread.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 1:01 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Originally Posted by petitefrancaise View Post
not you again. Honestly, did you ever finish high school?
Have a think for a minute - when most people enter the USA for a visit, they get an ESTA and they do not have to show that they have been vaccinated against a whole range of very highly infectious diseases. Measles for example. Why do you think that is?
All along we have said that the restrictions will be in place until a vaccine is widely available. Once that is achieved and people start being vaccinated, it doesn't matter if every now and again someone without a vaccine or even with covid19 enters a country because the virus needs to come into contact with unvaccinated people to spread.
Because you can't do that on an esta application for one thing you can't upload documents of proof it doesn't work like that. I doubt they could show it at least not very easily at the border. I would struggle to show my vaccine history from my school days I am sure my doctor has it he must have. And because people within the USA may have been vaccinated in large numbers against measles for instance as have most of the visitors from the UK I believe with the MMR jab or separate jabs even due to Autism concerns back in day. A lot of the more worried families went for the separate jabs but most have had it I think.

But you have never shut borders for measles nor destroyed your economy nor put millions out of work like you have here.

Here is a question for people. What about the quality of the vaccine for want of a better term. Will that be an issue? The so called oxford vaccine offers immunity after x days against exposure to the virus in high levels. But apparently does not prevent virus in nasal passages?. So to my understanding of that as a layman the Oxford Vaccine means you can't get the serious illness and die and you do have antibodies. But you may still be able to pass it on through nasal discharge?. The nasal thing is always a problem with these type of vaccines apparently? Does that mean it doesn't work? They seem to think it does. Will Facui want one with a higher protective ability to use that term. Because I don't think we can do it?

Last edited by andyrebell; Jun 29th 2020 at 1:03 pm.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 1:28 pm
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

At the end of the day any country can impose any conditions they feel required to stop those who have no legal right to enter that country. Even those with legal rights to enter can also have conditions imposed on them be it quarantine or others. A UK/Canadian/Australian or any other has no legal right to be admitted to the United States for any purpose should the powers that be want to implement a travel ban.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 1:49 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
At the end of the day any country can impose any conditions they feel required to stop those who have no legal right to enter that country. Even those with legal rights to enter can also have conditions imposed on them be it quarantine or others. A UK/Canadian/Australian or any other has no legal right to be admitted to the United States for any purpose should the powers that be want to implement a travel ban.
It has been a brave move of the EU to do this. I didn't think they had it in them. But a fair move.

A question to your reply. Is it legal for the states of NY, NJ etc to impose a quarantine restriction on arrivals from elsewhere within the USA? Does such a restriction on movement of citizens within the country not go against some part of the constitution?
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 2:05 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Originally Posted by andyrebell View Post
It has been a brave move of the EU to do this. I didn't think they had it in them. But a fair move.

A question to your reply. Is it legal for the states of NY, NJ etc to impose a quarantine restriction on arrivals from elsewhere within the USA? Does such a restriction on movement of citizens within the country not go against some part of the constitution?
Dunno I don't live in the USA nor care about its Constitution unless I am visiting the USA. Canada has certainly imposed quarantine restrictions on its own citizens from travelling within the country. Legal well some say No but until it is taken to court then they do what they want and will face consequences later. We also have the US/Canada border closed to non essential persons until at least 21 July 2020. Our Charter Of Rights(Constitution) states
Rights to move and gain livelihood
(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right
  • (a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
  • (b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.

    This was proclaimed in 1982 but nobody's Constitution or Laws will specifically state in the outbreak of a virus that the Govt or its Provinces/States cannot impose conditions to protect the health of people and ban others from entering.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 2:11 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Originally Posted by andyrebell View Post
It has been a brave move of the EU to do this. I didn't think they had it in them. But a fair move.

A question to your reply. Is it legal for the states of NY, NJ etc to impose a quarantine restriction on arrivals from elsewhere within the USA? Does such a restriction on movement of citizens within the country not go against some part of the constitution?
As public health is primarily a state-controlled issue (and not the Feds) the laws vary from state to state. Here is a good listing of all the quarantine rules in various states:

https://www.ncsl.org/research/health...-statutes.aspx

The Constitution does have some protection for traveling and commerce between states, which would indicate that you can't discriminate against people from other states. However, some commentators still feel that the states would preside over these constitutional objections, but it hasn't been tested recently.

https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-j...s-other-states
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 3:14 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Originally Posted by andyrebell View Post
It has been a brave move of the EU to do this. I didn't think they had it in them. But a fair move.

A question to your reply. Is it legal for the states of NY, NJ etc to impose a quarantine restriction on arrivals from elsewhere within the USA? Does such a restriction on movement of citizens within the country not go against some part of the constitution?
as with all things look at the past for precedent, I recall people were quarantined for Ibola. The CDC has some general information:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...isolation.html

Legal aspects aside, while you can control passengers arriving on flights at the gate, there are no “checkpoints” on highways as you drive between states (in the places I have driven). The closest were the toll booths, but in NE many have now been taken done and replaced with plate readers.. NJ still have them.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 6:57 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Originally Posted by andyrebell View Post
What about the quality of the vaccine for want of a better term.
What about it?

Will that be an issue?
Why would it be?

The so called oxford vaccine offers immunity after x days against exposure to the virus in high levels. But apparently does not prevent virus in nasal passages?. So to my understanding of that as a layman the Oxford Vaccine means you can't get the serious illness and die and you do have antibodies. But you may still be able to pass it on through nasal discharge?.
Then it sounds like as many people as possible should be getting the vaccine in order to not only protect themselves, but to protect others.

The nasal thing is always a problem with these type of vaccines apparently? Does that mean it doesn't work?
There are many vaccines rather than just one, and there are several that are all but ready for release once they complete the trials and obtain regulatory approval.

The research and the results are published publicly if you want to go and read them. I'm not a virologist, but from what I do understand the results are very encouraging.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 9:04 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

What I can see happening is what is happening in Hawaii and Iceland. People are welcome to arrive but must either be tested on arrival (for Iceland) or shortly before arrival (for Hawaii) or go into quarantine for x days if they refuse to be tested.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 11:34 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Originally Posted by TexanScot View Post
What about it?



Why would it be?



Then it sounds like as many people as possible should be getting the vaccine in order to not only protect themselves, but to protect others.



There are many vaccines rather than just one, and there are several that are all but ready for release once they complete the trials and obtain regulatory approval.

The research and the results are published publicly if you want to go and read them. I'm not a virologist, but from what I do understand the results are very encouraging.
I am not a virologist either. But it doesn't seem like the Oxford Vac works if it doesn't prevent infection build up and spread in the nasal cavity and it doesn't appear to from what was mentioned in the press a couple of months but they are proceeding with it anyway. That having been said they are getting ready for mass human roll out here in UK in not too distant future from what has been spoken of in recent weeks. Assuming it is rolled out they are saying by end October/November as a point of reference now, would it be considered with the nasal issue to offer sufficient protection against infection and spread to allow brits to resume travel to the USA?

Or would Facui/Trump/CDC/name your government body want a vaccine that protects from death and prevents spread which the Oxford one doesn't seem to meaning that vaccinated brits may not be allowed in to the USA just yet?. Or would the US want you to have the Moderna vaccine as well to pick on that one. I am sure other vaccines will come through as you say but when we will get them in UK?. It could be a long time as has been spoken of before if this one is not acceptable to certain parties. Acceptance of this vaccine by another country for travel will be the last thing on the government's mind if they decide this is the way forward for the UK. And here is another thing to think about how would these different vaccines interact with each other. That we have no idea about.

I still say we should ban travel from the USA to Americans UNTIL they allow us to travel to the USA for us. That is fair.
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Old Jun 29th 2020, 11:48 pm
  #28  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Originally Posted by andyrebell View Post
I am not a virologist either. But it doesn't seem like the Oxford Vac works if it doesn't prevent infection build up and spread in the nasal cavity and it doesn't appear to from what was mentioned in the press a couple of months but they are proceeding with it anyway. That having been said they are getting ready for mass human roll out here in UK in not too distant future from what has been spoken of in recent weeks. Assuming it is rolled out they are saying by end October/November as a point of reference now, would it be considered with the nasal issue to offer sufficient protection against infection and spread to allow brits to resume travel to the USA?

Or would Facui/Trump/CDC/name your government body want a vaccine that protects from death and prevents spread which the Oxford one doesn't seem to meaning that vaccinated brits may not be allowed in to the USA just yet?. Or would the US want you to have the Moderna vaccine as well to pick on that one. I am sure other vaccines will come through as you say but when we will get them in UK?. It could be a long time as has been spoken of before if this one is not acceptable to certain parties. Acceptance of this vaccine by another country for travel will be the last thing on the government's mind if they decide this is the way forward for the UK. And here is another thing to think about how would these different vaccines interact with each other. That we have no idea about.

I still say we should ban travel from the USA to Americans UNTIL they allow us to travel to the USA for us. That is fair.
So in paragraph 1 you touch on the the efficacy of a vaccine and what the desired result is.

In paragraph 2 you touch on some valid questions...

In paragraph 3 you say, who cares about science, your sentence is a bit mixed up, I assume your saying... if they ban us, ban them... it makes sense for countries to ban travel from countries with high / increasing infections (if their population is not protected by a vaccine) and has a much lower rate.... tit for tat less so...


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Old Jun 30th 2020, 12:06 am
  #29  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

Originally Posted by tht View Post
So in paragraph 1 you touch on the the efficacy of a vaccine and what the desired result is.

In paragraph 2 you touch on some valid questions...

In paragraph 3 you say, who cares about science, your sentence is a bit mixed up, I assume your saying... if they ban us, ban them... it makes sense for countries to ban travel from countries with high / increasing infections (if their population is not protected by a vaccine) and has a much lower rate.... tit for tat less so...
Yes I am saying if they ban us we ban them as is fair. Because Europe/UK is to my understanding not saying that their entry bans will remain until a vaccine is found they are saying the situation will be reviewed every 2 or 3 weeks perhaps but I think Trump favours the ban until vaccine is found. It was brave of the EU to do it.
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Old Jul 1st 2020, 2:11 pm
  #30  
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Default Re: EU Travel Ban on "Americans"

The EU hasn't actually implemented the recently announced travel ban; it's only suggested it, and it's up to member states to decide whether to implement it or not.
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