Originally Posted by BloodMoon

What with immigration being such a hot topic lately, and ESPECIALLY here in Texas with it's huge Mexican population, I have become somewhat of a magnet and soundboard for curious American's opinions.

It's funny because I get asked many questions about my loyalty to the US and where I stand. Often they don't like my answers. Here is what I am asked...I'd like to know how other Expats answers compare to mine:

1 - Would you wave an American flag or an English one?

I wave both. My husband and I have one of each blowing outside our home. I proudly wear British t shirts, such as England football shirts, soccer jerseys, etc. But I also have various US sports team baseball caps, etc too.

2 - If America and England suddenly went to war, which army would you choose to ally with?

Unfortunately, I'd have to say England. My family and friends are there. My legacy and history is there, and I'll always be English. As much as I love America, it's important to remember that I spent approximately 26 years of my life in the UK, and only 12 months in the US!!

3 - How do you feel about illegal immigrants?

I have an old mantra, "Don't hate the player, hate the game". In other words, don't have a problem with the individual - think about the system. I don't care what anyone says - if you came from a poor country with hopeless life chances, you would do WHATEVER IT TAKES to support your family. And if America - a land of opportunity and potential - has weak borders, poor control, and easy ways to make money, then who are we to chastize the immigrants for doing what is necessary? Hell, if nobody is checking tickets at the movie theater, I won't bother buying one. Immoral? Sure. But it's their problem, not mine.

That being said, I do have a problem with the arrogance of some illegals. Just like people who take cell phone calls during a movie, or speak loudly in a romantic restaurant, I get sick and tired of some people who think they are "above" certain rules. And when I think of all the money, travel and stress I had to endure to get my visa - blood tests, X-rays, travelling to Lonodn and back, personal interviews, etc etc - only for some scumbag to hop over a fence or swim a river and get the same privileges as me...well I find that extremely unfair.

And when they wave Mexican flags and flagrantly flaunt their illegal status in Washington, I find it incredibly cocky.

Others coming soon..I have a conference call.

Originally Posted by snowbunny

Then one day someone decided to enforce the law, which meant you were going to lose your job and possibly be thrown in jail because of speeding you'd done IN THE PAST.

Originally Posted by gruffbrown

If you're going for citizenship, you may not want to tell your case officer that one.

Originally Posted by y2b4sure

Generally speaking, the people here illegally must currently have a better way of life compared to where they have come from, else they wouldn't be here. If they don't like their illegal lifestyle they could always return to a legal one in their original country, or follow the correct procedures to become a legal resident of the US.

Originally Posted by snowbunny

The whole POINT of the protests has been because there are currently immigrants "trapped" in the country with no legal path to residency and if they leave they will be banned for years.

Do you really know what you're talking about?

Let's say you entered the country illegally twenty years ago and married a USC somewhere down the line. Guess what? There is NO legal path for you to become a resident. If you leave the country in order for your spouse to petition for you, you get banned for ten years. If you stay, spouse still can't petition for you because you're in the country illegally.

You really expect people to walk away from their homes and their families that easily? You have to know the reality: that when a lot of these people came here, the immigration laws were NOT enforced and they were encouraged to come. Did you live here twenty years ago, near the border, to know exactly how immigration was treated? They were far more interested then in the "war on drugs" on the border.

No, I don't think they should arrogantly demand anything and I think that the method of protest gets under people's skins. On the other hand, we have to resolve the problems we've created by not enforcing the law in the past and now having a lynch mob demand that they be even harsher.

It's a huge nightmare for the kindest and most intelligent of people let alone the so-called administration in office now.

Originally Posted by BloodMoon

Listen to yourself! Trying to make me feel sympathy for these poor victimized GUILTY ILLEGAL CRIMINALS. That's what they are, bottom line. And no rhetoric from you, telling me how sad it is that they could be split from their families or lose their jobs will convince me otherwise.

Look at your first sentence: "Let's say you entered the country illegally twenty years ago"

Well that's the difference between me and them. I waited, I paid the money, I walked the line and now I'm here forever, and for free. Like I said earlier, if we all decided to just "swim the border" or "forget to go home after the 90 days visitor visa" then the country would be in absolute chaos. The only reason the US is in order is because people like me follow the rules.

What these illegals do is no different than crashing a private party despite being told that they're not invited.

Originally Posted by Big D

So basically your first post was BS? You no longer blame the system or the government or whatever - but now hate the illegal immigrants? So you do hate the 'players'

While i agree with some of your sentiments of illegality etc you are vastly oversimplifying this issue. But seeing as you change your position to suit the arguement i think you are probably just out for some sport!

Originally Posted by BloodMoon

They need to get an attitude adjustment.

Originally Posted by Manc

they're not the only ones.

Originally Posted by snowbunny

The whole POINT of the protests has been because there are currently immigrants "trapped" in the country with no legal path to residency and if they leave they will be banned for years.

Do you really know what you're talking about?

Let's say you entered the country illegally twenty years ago and married a USC somewhere down the line. Guess what? There is NO legal path for you to become a resident. If you leave the country in order for your spouse to petition for you, you get banned for ten years. If you stay, spouse still can't petition for you because you're in the country illegally.

You really expect people to walk away from their homes and their families that easily? You have to know the reality: that when a lot of these people came here, the immigration laws were NOT enforced and they were encouraged to come. Did you live here twenty years ago, near the border, to know exactly how immigration was treated? They were far more interested then in the "war on drugs" on the border.

No, I don't think they should arrogantly demand anything and I think that the method of protest gets under people's skins. On the other hand, we have to resolve the problems we've created by not enforcing the law in the past and now having a lynch mob demand that they be even harsher.

It's a huge nightmare for the kindest and most intelligent of people let alone the so-called administration in office now.

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP

I think what you miss is that there is an ideological aspect to US citizenship that differs greatly from what you'll find elsewhere in the world, which is rooted in the US' effort to assimilate immigrants into a heterogenous but (relatively) harmonious "melting pot".

Unlike the UK or most older nations, which have cultures that often precede their national identities, the American identity is tied largely to political institutions and mythos. Given the lack of common origins that would be typical in most older cultures, the US has constructed a tacit bargain -- you can maintain your religion, food, festivals, language and the bulk of your traditions, but in exchange for that, you will adopt American core ideals and accept certain American cultural institutions. (E pluribus unum and all that.)This apparatus allows newcomers to become American, not just in a legal sense but also in spirit.

This is the chemistry that allows a Muslim from Iran, a Catholic from the Philippines and a Christian in the Midwest to find enough of a common bond that they will join together when required, even if they don't see eye-to-eye on much else. It is possible to become an American, whereas it would be difficult to impossible for an immigrant-citizen to be embraced as a fellow German, Frenchman, etc. even if he speaks the language, eats the food, and buys into the system -- there, the path to citizenship is a legal one, but lacks the message of acceptance and adoption that you'd find here.

That's a lengthy way of saying that you apparently haven't bought into the package that has a longstanding tradition in the American system, which makes most Americans uncomfortable at a visceral level. (Most have never analyzed American citizenship as I have above, but they were trained to understand this at an emotional level.) It's the same impulse that makes Americans unhappy when they see Mexican flags being waved in a demonstration on American soil: they understand that these new immigrants are often unwilling to assimilate as did their predecessors, which threatens to weaken the institutions that made this immigrant culture possible in the first place.

Obviously, I have given this a bit of study, and it makes me nervous as well. The US has been strengthened by immigration, but only because the immigrants generally saw themselves as part of the fabric and aspired to be inculcated into American constructs. If they are here only for money, and expect the system to accomodate them without much in the way of reciprocation, then that paves the way to Balkanization and possibly creating the framework for making the Southwest become the next Quebec. I don't have a personal issue with immigrants per se, but the America-as-labor-importer ethic is invariably going to clash with more than a century's worth of public policy.

Originally Posted by Jabba1

Er...let's see.

4. Bring back slavery. Let all illegals work on plantations in exchange for food and a roof over their heads, and the promise that whippings will be done on weekends only.