DeanUK2US

Sounds good, as long as I don't get the feeling that bosses are taking liberties. I am considering Silicon Valley-based companies as a very viable option.

Bob

Thing is, you'll be looking for stability, if you come over on an L1 and say like NC Soft/Midway etc have done, shut your studio down, then your buggered.

H1 gives you a chance to transfer the visa, but it doesn't reset the length of stay your allowed in the country, which means chances are likely you'll time out before able to get a greencard in that situation....

I don't think the work ethic is much different over here, the industry is pretty much the same, publisher stiffs you and competant management might be smart enough to provide the vaseline or not and then it'll hurt more when the studio takes it.

One option you've not mentioned, and being in code with 12 years experience, look at teaching, they don't have the quota cap on H1 visa, so could start asap really...Full Sail in florida, Digipen in Redmond Washington, that's a good hub, and plenty of other games schools looking for decent teachers and you could probably work on games in school, or some other colleges that do more typical CS that also offer game related courses sometimes have games companies, well there's a couple in California, so you could work on games and teach at the same time.

Folinskyinla

Hi:

We are talking about place of birth, not nationality. And I have no reason to believe that Ray meant otherwise. However, Ray is aware of the existence of the concept of "cross-chargeability" -- but not its details and quirks. In fact, most lawyers are not either since it does not come all that often as it had in the past [like the 70's, 60, 50's].

Michael

I've worked in the Silicon Valley for over 30 years and only once (about a 1 year period) did I feel that I had a manager that was a jerk. I was a pretty good performer so maybe that is why I never felt the stress that some weaker performers (usually people that kept puting off their work until the deadline or spent too much time attending meetings and/or activities not related directly to the job) felt.

Bob

You've not worked in the games industry then have you

Michael

All Silicon Valley companies have tight schedules. I've worked in startups to large companies. Sometimes I'd take the majority of the load in a project because I really enjoyed programming and would get bored if I didn't have enough work to do. Over a 1 year period, I'd write 60,000 or more lines of code that was basically error free when QA was ready to test the program. Some others that were only assigned about 2,000 lines of code, would come in late with their code and it was loaded with errors. I doubt if they averaged 1 hour worth of work per day on their code but instead attended other groups meetings, seminars, surfing the internet, long lunches, or just BSing. It really wasn't that hard to get the project out in time if a little effort was made by everyone.

In my opinion, programmers that do not put an effort into a project create problems for everyone (other programmers, QA, marketing, publications, distribution, etc.) since all schedules go haywire. There are always a few in every project.

Bob

Definitely didn't get what I meant then...never mind.

Michael

I think I understand what you were saying. I think you believe that working in the game industry is more of a slave driver and disrespectful of employees than the other types of companies. If that was the case, EA in Fremont, CA wouldn't be able to employe 500 or more programmers since they would all leave to other Silicon Valley companies.

Now maybe the game industry in other cities don't respect the employee as much as the Silicon Valley companies since they don't have the same culture (lot of respect for the employee but also expect a lot from the employee). Maybe the games industry in those cities have only picked up the part about expect a lot from the employee.

Bob

EA are the worst offenders...

But any way, it's the way it is, because there's no union, it's an infant industry and it's the publisher driven money that is able to force the hand on the way things are done which is why things tend to be pretty shitty and part of the reason it's so unstable.

Michael

None of the companies in the Silicon Valley (except Lockheed) have a union and that would be the last thing that most employees would want. The employee loses respect (no more long lunches, no more flexible hours, no more taking a day off without having to take vacation, no more working at home when you can't come in, no more leaving at noon when you need to do something, no more stock options, no more bonuses, no more free lunches, no more pay raises based on merit, etc.) when a company becomes unionized.

Employers and employees love the culture in the Silicon Valley.

Besides hi-tech, most of the bio-tech companies started up in the Silicon Valley.

Now approximately 30 green car companies are starting up in the Silicon Valley (Tesla is the most famous).

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=12

Also about 50% of the worlds venture capital for clean energy is being spent on Silicon Valley startups.

Even companies that people don't associate with the bay area (not exactly Silicon Valley companies but near by) such as Pixar and Lucas Films were started up and are headquartered here.

Even most large Japanese and European hi-tech companies have development labs in the valley (Siemens, Fujitsu, Mitsubishi, Sony, etc.).

If you enjoy working on cutting edge technology, there isn't anyplace in the world that can compete with the Silicon Valley but it is definately Geekville.

Michael

I missed some of the perks of Silicon Valley companies. Many companies also have an on-site gym and some provide on-site day care. Other companies have even more.

Google in Mountain View south of San Francisco offers free organic food, laundry machines, a gym, massages, volleyball court, bike repairs and on-site doctors. Workers with new babies can bill the company for up to $500 for take-out food.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/20...le-perks_N.htm
http://googlewatch.eweek.com/content...ng_stupid.html

and

THE SEARCH engine outfit Google, which is famous for allowing employees to bring their pets to work, had a bit of a problem over the weekend when a pet python made a bid for freedom.

http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...s-at-work-plan

I agree that EA has had problems with its employees. I don't know why because I don't know of others in the valley that have had problems (even brand new startups). You'll notice in the article that EA eliminated stock options and bonuses for employees that were changed to being paid hourly. They probably also are now enforcing length of lunch breaks, require time cards, enforce time that employee must show up for work, and eliminated unexcused absenses for those employees.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/...ness/games.php

My girlfriend has been working as a programmer for a startup for the past several years and she typically works about 35-45 hours a week. Ocasionally she has to work long hours but that is usually only for about a month once or twice a year. For the past three months, she has worked from her home three days a week and only two days at the office. So I don't understand what EA is doing that is so different from other companies in the valley. Maybe they are a real bad slave driver (more so than most other companies in the valley) but if they are doing that, they probably should move out of the valley.

oldskool

If it is indeed a green card you are setting your sights on then I would recommend that you start working towards it right now. As has been mentioned already, game development can have a certain amount of instability associated with it so if you are going to get there (to a GC) via a temporary visa then you have to bear that in mind.

It could take five years, so you have to be with a company you a) like, b) is going to be around for that period. There aren't many game development gigs that fall into both of those categories.

Then there's the idea that you need an employer both willing and motivated to get you a green card. Some game companies won't do this, or will be put off by it. For most, they aren't going to be motivated to spend top cash and do it as fast as you might like.

Prior to you getting a green card, there's the whole visa thing. If you want to come straight away, then you may have to be patient. Unless you can get an O visa, or the company transfer L then you'll have to go via the H1-B route. Other people have commented on that so I don't need to say much more other than the quota is quickly met and add 2c worth on the fact that less game developers are hiring internationally because of it.

That being said, it is still your best bet...probably, but I would still look into the idea of going and working for someone like EA in the UK, working hard and then applying for EA US jobs, pushing for transfer via an L visa. This might actually be quicker than waiting patiently in-line for a H1-B...and L visa's are turned into greencards easier and quicker than any other type.

Assuming you do come in via the H1-B route then I would definately start working towards your eventual green card now, like right now. You can circumvent all those instability issues and five year waits by targetting an EB-1, which can be obtained in a matter of months (mine was 6) and is quite viable to do as a game developer. I would start doing these things now...

- Work on games that sell and review well. How, might you ask? If you sense the game you are working on is shovelware poo, consider changing who you work for and choosing an employer based on the project they offer. Don't forget that franchise titles, as dull as they might be to some can offer credibility to your CV and be the sort of title that have sales figures.
- Collect magazine and internet reviews of all the games you have (and will) work on.
- Get copies of the games you work on, if only so that you have copies of the box covers.
- Copy your credits from the games, either by photocopying the manual credits or by taking screenshots of in-game credits.
- Try to play a leading role in the projects you are credited on.
- Make friends with your employers, industry folk, academics and the odd big cheese who you might be able to approach to get a letter of recommendation from in the future. Don't get the letters now though...wait until you are ready to consult with an immigration attorney about what they feel they need.
- Start speaking at game development conferences. GDC roundtables are easy to get accepted and they require limited preparation, but try and present/speak too.
- See if you can join the judging panels of the AIAS and IGF, or similar. Judging someone elses work is a specific line item you can check off and via these judging panels, easy to do. Get proof you did it though...AIAS will send you a certificate every year, IGF print judge bios on their websites sites. Archive this stuff.
- Write articles and try and get them in as many places as possible, Game Developer Magazine, Gamasutra and so on.
- Publish white papers where ever you can, online, industry journals, magazines and so on.
- Write a book. If you can't write a book, try and get a chapter something in game programming gems, or get quoted in a book about game development...and so on.
- Make sure your mobygames bio is up to date and make sure the games you are working on have your credits registered on that site.
- Promote yourself as best as possible. Get your name in every possible place. If you can get interviewed in anyway, do it.
- Consider your own web site. Has no swing in the greencard application as everyone can set up a web site, but it may help and certainly should be part of your PR, a place to gather all those articles and white papers you'll write.

If you do a google search for EB-1 Alien of Extraordinary ability requirements, you'll get the picture. The point is, it's quite possible even of the course of a couple of years to put yourself in the position of qualifying for an EB-1. As i say, the benefit of this is not having to wait so long for a greencard. You can also petition for EB-1 without a job in the US. It's a slightly different route to do it and not as fast as petitioning via a US employer, but it is an option.

Failing all that, consider Canada. It's quite easy for game developers to get into British Columbia and the route to permanent residency there is quicker and again open for special preference.

DeanUK2US

Oh, wow! Thanks for that, oldskool!

A lot of the targets mentioned I have already fulfilled in getting my name credited in a game dev book and many other things - a lot I have recognition for.

will certainly look into the EB-1 visa and see if I am eligible. Thanks again for that!

DeanUK2US

Bob and Michael

Thanks again for the detailed contrasts between working in games and working outside of games as a programmer. Failing a suitable games job in the US I am reassured that there are many things on offer.

Bob

Getting a none games job is a lot easier, certainly for stability, some really big companies knocking around where I live too, who would be ale to transfer you, some others are companies that could do the E2 treaty visa for a Brit citizen, which wouldn't lead to a greencard, but would get you over quickly...even more luck if you've got hardware experience.

Still, not as fun being sensible