kodokan

It's not nearly as astounding as you'd think, especially when going from a non-native language in an academically rigorous system, to native language in (often in the US) an easier one. It helps too that the US is so modular - it doesn't matter a jot that you studied Biology and European History in your French-speaking school last year, because this year you're doing Chemistry and US Government in English. Very little prior knowledge or specialist vocabulary is required from one year to the next, and the background generics - math skills, ability to structure an essay in a set fashion, etc - can be picked up in a few weeks or months, depending on age.

That said, I did feel sorry a few years ago when a friend - who lost her expat school fees when she localized - had to move her then 13 year old from a US curriculum International school to our local Swiss village one. Being a Czech family, the poor lad was already being educated in a second language, and now he was having to start all over again in a third.

OP, educationally it's surmountable, IF - big if - all the kids are on side and want to do it. It'll likely involve them having to do gap-fill summer school classes, or take a number of tests to be placed in higher-level classes (if they're the academic type). They WILL have to work harder and longer than their peers for a year or so, while they get caught up. It may involve them having to add a year to their education somewhere along the line. But if they're open to and thrive on new experiences, it can be made to work well.

vikingsail

I have to say that given the ages of your three sons I would be very reluctant to disrupt their education in formative and crucial years. As another poster points out they may likely end up with qualifications that are of no use in either system.

Whatever you decide given the ages of your sons it needs to come with a degree of certainty for them which will include seeing them through whatever course of study they eventually undertake, e.g, the eldest should be in a position to complete his US university education and not have to flipflop back to the UK (regardless of whether it is doable it is imho a recipe for disaster, and falls into the why would you visit this upon your child category?), the two younger children should similarly be enabled to complete their respective high school and middle school experiences without disruption.

Private schools (not Uni's) are a potential good solution as they tend to offer more flexibility across states and possibly Internationally. I strongly urge you to contact private schools in the area you are considering relocating to.

I think the key is to ensure your children end up with a clear set of qualifications and not a mish mash of two systems which they will have to explain and clear the barrier in order to succeed in life.

Have you considered commuting yourself. With the kind of funds on offer (5-6K for rent alone) it would seem a less onerous option for your family and certainly feasible?

petitefrancaise

This issue of the eldest child continuing his university education here has been answered already. He can get an F1 visa.

As for the other kids, well it rather depends on what the education is like right now for them. From some of what I've experienced and heard of UK education it might actually be better for them to go to a good US school for a few years. And really, a "mish mash" of schools prior to university being something that might be a barrier to succeed in life????

When was the last time anyone looked at your GCSEs or "A" levels once you'd got your degree? My daughter had to take the time to explain the discrepancy between her results (excellent) and her RIC (good) when she was applying to university but it wasn't a hardship and actually put her right in front of the admissions department's eyes since she or I had already spoken to them and alerted them.

Kodokan and I have experience of moving kids, and we both agree on one very important aspect - the kids have to be on board.

vikingsail

Well here goes Firstly you have misquoted me. I said a mish mash of two systems not schools. I agree qualifications post degree are rarely looked at for practical purposes, although its surprising to me how many application forms still require the information. Notwithstanding that, in order to get said degree you still have to acquire the qualifications to get into a degree program. Any program worth doing is going to require a solid track record not a mish mash or fliflop of qualifications. After all college admissions people wherever you apply, here the US or elsewhere, are human and the object of the admissions process is to make it easier for them to admit you which it is going to be if you have clear easy to follow quals and not well I was here x years then transferred here then here etc etc...

Having said all that I am only trying to offer an alternative point of view. Sorry that it appears to have hit to close to home.

petitefrancaise

It's not that you've hit close to home, to use your own metaphor, you are way off base.

My experience with my daughter only just over a year ago, was that once you got through to the right admissions department,(it might be called "special circumstances" or something like that) and they saw that the student was succesful in not one educational system but 2 and in not one but 2 languages, they were very interested in having such a student in their university. In most cases, her application to them would be uploaded to the general site but then the application would be pulled out from all the others and given extra attention.

Pulaski is "astounded" at how well it has gone for my kids. I am aware that it has gone well and that transferring kids doesn't always go brilliantly but I'm not about to tell people that it's impossible or overly difficult. It isn't but it does rather depend on the kids.

SanDiegogirl

So no Green Card and permanent residency on offer?

What a dilemma.......

Nutmegger

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned is the OP's wife's take on all this. Petitefrancaise, you are obviously very familiar with the ex-pat life and very proactive in sorting out all aspects of family life and of your children's education with the powers that be in a new country while your OH gets on with his job. It would seem that is an important element of your family's successful adjustment? (As well as the children's prior familiarity with the ex-pat life.)

Pulaski

As usually occurs when this argument debate comes up, the question that you and Kodocan fail to recognize is that while it is certainly possible to manage your way out of the situation you have created for your children, I and others am puzzled why anyone would choose put such an obstacle in the way of the orderly progression of their children's secondary education.

I understand that for some people it is Hobson's choice, they have no other job, or they were given no choice, but other things being equal, I see many more problems than opportunities being created by uprooting teenagers and dumping them into a significantly different education system. And for those children that are transplanted, while some survive the process, and a few thrive on the challenge, I suspect that the majority are disadvantaged to some degree.

petitefrancaise

There's a whole load of stuff being written about 3rd culture kids.

Sometimes, pulaski, the secondary education they are receiving SHOULD be disrupted for their benefit. I wouldn't put kids into schools where they can't speak the language as teenagers though. My youngest was asked to help translate for a British kid dumped in her school in France. He was just shell shocked and couldn't even speak to her in English. Now that is cruel. Bringing the kids where there is a half decent education and in the same language, well that's the easy bit. You get so hung up on the education part and any of us that have moved the kids know that the hard part is having to leave all that they know behind and make a new start.

kodokan

Yes, it could possibly close off some doors to them that might have opened more easily to someone with a more conventional school CV. But think of all the doors it could open! <pours glass half full>

For some kids, my 16 year old son included, 'orderly progression' is the kiss of bored death. He LIKES chaos, reinventing himself, and living a life less ordinary - he sees not obstacles, but opportunities. Now on his 10th school across 3 countries and 2 languages, he has a comprehensive and global view of 'education' light years beyond what one school in one town would have doled out to him. He finds it incredible that some of his classmates have never been out of their state, and (somewhat arrogantly - he's 16!) finds it reflects in their worldview and class discussions like literature or history where a bit of life experience adds value. He stands the highest possible chance of being an active, lifelong learner, able to discern what has widespread value and importance, and what is serving only a narrow and parochial agenda.

One of his most defining experiences is turning up in a classroom unable to speak the language. He benchmarks everything back to it when faced with new challenges: 'Meh, everyone will speak English, how hard can it be if I can ask for help? <shrug> But he was 8, at an age when children are generally friendly and it's easy to fit in with playing tag and football. I completely agree that changing educational languages for teens would be horrific and to be avoided at all costs, barring a gap year-style cultural exchange. But UK-US could be traversed safely, with caveats.

It really is all down to a teen's attitude. If they're open to it, and the parent understands the decisions to be made about housing/ school districts and are prepared to argue the toss about credit transfers, it's completely doable and can be a fantastically positive experience. If the child utterly can't imagine a life without their best friend since Reception, and their sustained response to a suggested move is anger or distress, then I'd think again.

They must also be comfortable with standing out in a group, as their accent and different life experience will make them very noticeable among their classmates. Again, we've only found this to be an advantage - frankly, the teachers are often as starstruck about Foreign as the kids are. And they clearly gossip - my son's high school has 2.5k students and he only arrived this past year, but within a couple of months teachers he doesn't even have, for higher level French and Euro History, both met him and commented about 'oh, YOURE the one from Europe, who did his elementary schooling in another language. And you'll be in my class next year? Fantastic!'. It makes it easy to be a Somebody.

The broad-based system through to 18 suits him, as he enjoys both Maths/ Sciences, and Literature/ History. His same-age UK cousin was openly jealous that he's escaped doing GCSEs this year; he was horrified that some of the girls in her school were solving their exam stress through the escapism of vodka and, in one sad case, being sectioned. When the only possibility presented is a narrowly-prescribed educational path with do-or-die exam crunch points and a goal of university or nothing, it isn't always the best option for mental health or career prospects. High schools here often have a clear technical and vocational track, so less academic kids can get training and job apprenticeship skills, and leave at 18 with recognized qualifications in welding, computers, hairdressing, pharmacy tech, etc.

And Pulaski knows what an asset the British accent can be when it comes to dating All in all, despite the upheaval, a teen move could work out very well in terms of gaining social confidence, new experiences, and a lifelong change in worldview. IF the teen is a willing participant.

kodokan

I've just canvassed opinion with my teen while making late night coffee. He thinks the move is completely fine education-wise, if you can get Green Cards and therefore be able to manage your timeline and not have to, say, move a 17 year old back to the UK. He thinks it would be a bit chancy and unsettling on temp visas, for them to live with the possibility of having to change back to the UK at an inconvenient stage.

Having to do an extra year along the way wouldn't faze him overmuch, but this is probably a view specific to him and due to a combination of (a) he saw plenty of other kids repeating a year upon arrival in Switzerland, so considers it a fairly normal consequence of a move rather than a damning indictment of their academic abilities, and (b) my husband left school at 16, worked for 4 years as a mechanic, then wised up and went back to education to do A levels, a HND, a BEng, and an MEng. So he doesn't see an orderly progression through one system as the only, or indeed the best, possibility in life. (Hubby credits much of his shop floor management success with the 4 years he spent fitting engines into trucks on a production line - he's one of very few managers in his companies who can honestly say 'I know how you feel'. A stint in another country/ culture could be similarly useful for your kids' future interpersonal skills.)

Edit: Pulaski - I mentioned 'accent glaze' to him as a concept, and he knew EXACTLY what you meant! He says he often has people that are clearly listening to how he is saying words rather than what the words are.

mooncat2016

Guys, this is all tremendously helpful. Thank you so much! I didn't intend to incite a debate but the differing perspectives are helping in my thinking. The reality of my kids (and yer this is a completely different debate for some other time) is they spend most of their spare time sat with their headphones on socialising virtually. Sad truth of the age we live in. Secondly the reality of the situation is if the US opportunity doesn't come off then I have to relocate within the UK anyway to keep my job. I wont go into all the detail but that's the reality of the situation, so either way, its a new school / fiends for the kids regardless. I am now thinking of leaving my eldest here in the UK living by himself at home, he will be 18 early next year and can attend a local university and then travel to stay with us during term breaks (if he can be bothered). At least it keeps someone in the house rather than empty, just need to lay the rules down on parties and girls..
The middle one I am thinking comes with us for the next 2 years or so to do whatever is the equivalent to A'levels then moves back to study Uni in the UK, either at home or digs wherever he wants to go. The youngest is the least I worry about, he has the confidence and charm as anyone, I have no concerns over his resilience and ability to settle into a new environment. I just need to carefully work out what he could do in the time we were there (GCSE/A level) to set him up to study at a university in the UK.

But please keep your thoughts coming, it is genuinely helpful here on what is likely to be one of the biggest decisions our family will make.... thanks!!

p.s. Do I understand it correctly that my wife will be able to work if I am there on a L1? She is a teachers assistant (Jnr children) and hence would be looking to do that part time. Also do I understand correctly that without a green card the kids cannot work, not even part time over the summer in a restaurant or similar?

Pulaski

If that is what you're thinking, then you should look seriously at The British International School in Houston for him. Correct x2. Your wife will need to apply for an EAD (Employment Authorisation Document) when she arrives. Your children can't work on their derivative L-2 visas.
It is a real phenomenon!
I found out too late. And a Sheffield accent, albeit a muted one, seemed to have the opposite effect in London.

petitefrancaise

Is there any possibility of negotiating your relocation package? For example, your rent allowance is v generous and so is paying for the schooling until age 19, this could perhaps be negotiated down but throw in green cards for the family. Find a really good school district and so with no private school fees to be paid, maybe a lump sum to help with paying for university/college for your eldest/middle sons.

HR and the global mobility people know that the success of an international relocation with a family really revolves around getting the family well settled. If you need help putting together figures, then ask here on the forum, we are all happy to help.

ETA
also most international companies have relocation packages already worked out and the package you get usually depends upon your pay grade/job level within the company. It could be worth seeing if a slight change in job grade means you get the green card thrown in.

kodokan

Hubby's company was very reasonable about the green card thing - it wasn't initially offered upfront, but when we explained that a 3-4 year assignment would put our son at age 15-16 and would be disruptive to his education if we found ourselves with no choice but to return, they chucked it in willingly. He'd been with the company over 10 years at that point and they were moving him to the global head office, so I imagine they saw plenty of scope to keep him busy in the US indefinitely.

We moved over on L visas Oct 2011, and got Permanent Residency in Jan 2013 (application process took about 8 months, from L1-A). Which, as it turned out, was lucky, as his company made him redundant Dec 2014. It would've been VERY stressing to deal with job loss, forced relocation AND moving a 15 yr old to a different school system. As it was, hubby found a new job in Ohio, so an inter-state move for our son to a new high school - not nearly as much of a big deal as his course credits all slotted in neatly and, as you mentioned, much of their social life is online anyway so he has continued his gaming with his friends back in AZ.

I'm a huge advocate for the benefits of global mobility for kids and the advantages of giving them an international adventure, but even so I'd think veeeeeery carefully about moving teens to a country where I didn't have the right to remain for a timescale of my choice.